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Mondial

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by 2cam, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. 2cam

    2cam Formula Junior

    Aug 28, 2014
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  2. 2cam

    2cam Formula Junior

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    #2 2cam, Jan 28, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
    Whoops! Should have had a period included after that first sentence above. Sorry about that...

    I've been driving the Mondial for the last several days while my daily is in the shop for a bit of maintenance work. Man, I love this car! The sound, the smell, the view over the hood, the dash, the placement of the instruments, the color of the gauges at night, the steering, etc. I just don't get how people can be so critical of these cars. They're not perfect, but what a great classic machine.

    2cam
     
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  3. srephwed

    srephwed F1 Rookie
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    The radio was broken when I got mine. My wife asked when I was going to fix it and I told her why listen to the radio when you have a symphony orchestra right behind you.
     
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  4. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    I feel you my brother. I get this feeling after a nice long drive, I'll just tell my wife 'love this car'

    It's a great experience and I totally understand. It's like I'm in the know of the secret to automotive happiness. The fact it brings this much smiles with relatively low cost compared to other cars, is just amazing.

    I think John Pogson who raced F40s for a living said it best, "this is just a really cool car and it puts a smile on me face.."
     
  5. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    The truth is they didn't, I've read every professional review of the 3.2 Mondial from Car and driver to Motortrend. From Car to Motor.

    They all loved it.

    Only detractors are article rurgitators of the 2 bad reviews of the Mondial '8' (us spec) or folks that bought one that was in bad condition.
     
  6. Testarossa Sean

    Testarossa Sean Karting

    May 13, 2018
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    I love your mondial too


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  7. Mark C Harvey

    Mark C Harvey Karting
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    Jul 17, 2018
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    Yes - daily driving your Mondial!! What a joy!!

    I totally get it. This summer I am going to daily her whenever I please. These cars are so great.

    Alas it is below freezing here. Actually the roads were rinsed by 8 hours of heavy rain a few days ago but I still don’t trust them - there could still be residual salt. I want much more rain before the roads are clean enough for her.
     
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  8. Mark C Harvey

    Mark C Harvey Karting
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    I have been dreaming about making a documentary on the Mondial. Good quality gimballed video and proper engine audio. Drone footage. Maybe even interview some owners on FerrariChat, there must be some great stories. :cool:.
     
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  9. 2cam

    2cam Formula Junior

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    Agreed! However, perhaps I should clarify my comment - I'm actually referring to the belief that these cars are complete crap - most often regurgitated by those that just don't know any different. Oh well, at least it helps keeps the prices reasonable on them.

    ^That's funny!

    My radio works great. However, I've only had it on a couple of times. It just seems like a crime to mask those wonderful mechanical sounds with noise out of the radio! ;)

    2cam
     
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  10. 88MONDIAL

    88MONDIAL Formula 3

    Apr 13, 2005
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    I couldn't agree more with what everyone here said!! I love my Mondial. I just had my "major" done and it was quite expensive and can't wait to try it this coming season. -12 for a high tomorrow with wind chills of 55 below zero! Just thinking of my Mondial makes me all warm inside!
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  11. 2cam

    2cam Formula Junior

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    What a great idea!

    That's a beautiful 8 that you have there.

    2cam
     
  12. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
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    The mondial is like one of those life hacks that everyone knows or has an example of. The best place to get an unbelievable steak for 1/3 the price of the "in" place, the best golf course for 1/3rd the $, the best hotel for 1/3rd the $...etc. I myself looked down my nose at the mondial for many years. Having a family pushed me down the path to consider buying one. After owning a couple I feel completely foolish as per my previous thoughts. The Mondial is a hidden gem/secret know only to a few, its far more usable for a family than any 911 variant, DB9, or any other 2+2 attempting to be an actual sports car. The dilemma is that those of us who are in on the secret... do we promote the Mondial's virtues which will bring the prices up or do we hold the secret close to the vest so we can own/buy more of them...?
     
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  13. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Beautifully said.
     
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  14. jkstevens2

    jkstevens2 Karting
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    Keep the secret close to the vest!
     
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  15. 2cam

    2cam Formula Junior

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    What a great post! I agree completely. I recently sold my 3.2 Carrera and have now have an extra space in the garage. Hmmmm. I originally passed on the Mondial cabs and chose a coupe, but maybe a nice, clean 3.2 cab would be fun to have. The family has been wanting a convertible. I was originally thinking about a nice XJS or e30 325i to fill that role, but the Mondial prices are pretty attractive...

    2cam
     
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  16. JLF

    JLF Formula Junior

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    Of course a mondial would be awesome. But I recently bought an 07 328i convertible with 62000 miles for $10500 dollars. Was just looking for a cheap Honda daily driver and wife said “why don’t you get a convertible?”
    Took it home cleaned the crap out of it, clay bar and buff. The car is spectacular and drives great. I think you can find them all day long in the low teens. Best ten grand I’ve ever spent. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  17. 88MONDIAL

    88MONDIAL Formula 3

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    Thanks for the kind words! I enjoy her immensely. Your 3.2 is beautiful as well!
     
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  18. 2cam

    2cam Formula Junior

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    Beautiful car. Interestingly, e90 BMWs are what soured me on having newer, more complex European cars. I had a 2006 330i and a 2010 335i. Both were besieged with a number of technical/mechanical issues that were unforgivable in a modern car. After dealing with those continual issues (and similar issues on a e60 5 series), I was done and moved over to Toyota products (Lexus) as a provider of primary, daily drivers. I'm willing to forgive 30 year old iron for idiosyncrasies and occasional reliability issues, but not modern cars. They should function reliably and without significant issues.

    2cam
     
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  19. JLF

    JLF Formula Junior

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    Yea I agree, after looking into them they do have some issues. But for ten grand and me doing my own maintenance it’s not a big deal really. It would be a totally different story if I bought one new or for much more than I paid and then had a bunch of issues.

    My father had a 96 M3 that went over 300,000 miles and he barely maintained the thing and he also had a 2006 330is that went to 160,000 miles with no major issues. So I guess it’s a crap shoot on wether or not you’ll have problems.

    Sadly I believe most German cars, bmw, Audi, Mercedes and Porsche all seem to have some major issue with their cars now.
     
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  20. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie
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    The more you drive it the more you will love it. Nice looking Mondial!
    I am very fortunate since my girlfriend likes it too. She is always asking when it's nice weather to go for a drive. This summer we will go with our 5month old son to Italy. New adventures :)
     
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  21. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie
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    We always have great stories and adventures when we go on our yearly Ferrari week trip to Italy. We sometimes decal our Ferraris, we drive above the three line in the Alpes and have fantastic mountain roads up and down. We meet new people and we get a request of the son of Mr. Lamborghini to sell one of our cars to him last year. There was no trip that it was not an adventure and of course from time to time a Ferrari breaks down and then for some reason new adventures really begin.

    Sharing this passion of interesting cars you will meet interesting people.



    Tonino Lamborghini asking our friend if his Lamborghini is for sale when we were at the museum of the Lamborghini family.

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  22. donkost

    donkost Karting
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    I have had my '85 QV Cab for a little over a year now. The previous owner told me the radio works fine and that he upgraded the speakers. I have no idea as I haven't turned it on yet. heh We had a terribly rainy and high heat index summer in the northeast. I haven't had a chance to put the top down yet to really hear the mechanical symphony in the open. Going to have to shoot for our brief spring before the brunt of summer kicks in. I am envious of course of those of you in Texas and southern California as it is still driving season for you. :)
     
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  23. Mechanical Dad

    Mechanical Dad Formula Junior

    Aug 30, 2016
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    Agreed! The 8 is GREAT ! Best sleeper of all time. Makes me wonder sometimes if the journalists really know cars ? Isn't it about how the car makes you feel? Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  24. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    #24 paulchua, Feb 7, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
    I've read every article of the Mondial 8. Here they are, all 19 of them if you like!

    Here are my thoughts if you would indulge me.

    1) It was unanimous that it had the 'best' handling of any Ferrari up to that point (1980.) With not one reviewer (even the 2 negative ones, disagreeing it had best in class road manners.)

    2) How many new Ferrari lay claim that its namesake was involved directly in the development?

    3) I suspect the US variants are under tuned to meet California requirements, European reviews consistently were faster. Should be easy to remove the emissions control equipment to bring them to par with the European counterparts.

    4) Not many can say they own a "Fioravanti Pininfarina"

    5) The USA was undergoing I would argue the most challenging time when it came to emissions. I've shown that the Ferrari Mondial 8 was the 2nd or 3rd FASTEST (1/4 mile) car you could buy new in a California dealership in 1980. People Forget this. The Vette and 308GTSi being the other two slighter faster.

    6) Some US reviewers scapegoated the Mondial and layed their frustrations on the backward momentum of speed as if the Mondial caused the changes, talk about blaming the victim!

    7) The Mondial 8 made for easy clickbait bullying; it's 40 years old man, give it a rest. When people bash it, it's a flag they didn't do their homework.

    8) It was considerably more expensive than the 308, 20% more in fact.

    9) The design was ahead of its time, in fact, Toyota and GM both copied the main design elements.

    10) The 308 is bulletproof, but the Mondial 8 (which share the same drivetrain) isn't? This always cracks me up. It's more likely the 308s were generally better maintained since the early stigma of the Mondial 8 carried through with maintenance, that's my theory. I agree electrics were shabby,but then again most 80s Ferrari had a lot to go in that department.
     
  25. paulchua

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    #25 paulchua, Feb 7, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
    I know I posted this before but posting again because I've gotten a lot of positive feedback for this research.


    New Cars available to purchase back in 1980 in the USA besdies the Mondial (these are always the 'top' of the line variant)
    1980 Challenger
    105 HP
    0-60: 12.1
    1/4 Mile 18.2

    Source:
    https://www.zeroto60times.com/?s=challenger

    1980 Mustang “Cobra”
    132 HP
    0-60: 10.8
    1/4 Mile: 18.2

    Source:
    https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/1980-ford-mustang-cobra-review

    1980 Mercedes Benz 380 SL
    155 HP
    0-60: 10.8
    1/4 Mile: 18.2

    Source:
    https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/mercedes-0-60-mph-times/

    1981 Camero “Z28” – it had to be fitted with specialized emissions equipment to pass California rules (you guessed it – Ferrari’s biggest market)
    165 HP
    0-60: 9.7

    Source:
    https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/chevrolet-0-60-mph-times/new-old/

    1980 Maserati Marek
    180 HP
    0-60: 9.2
    1/4: 17.1

    Source: http://alexachua.com/rt_1975.pdf

    1979 Lamborghini Uracco (US version)
    180 HP
    0-60: 10.1
    1/4: 17.9

    Source: http://alexachua.com/rt_1981.pdf

    1980 Corvette – again had to have unique emissions equipment for the market that Ferrari needed compliance: California
    “The only powertrain available in California is a five-liter V-8 with automatic….”
    180 HP
    0-60: 8.3
    1/4: 16.5
    (The stats for the Vette is the performance for the non-California version btw which was faster)
    http://alexachua.com/mtdec1981.pdf

    1980 Porsche 928
    229 HP
    0-60: 8.2
    1/4: 16.2

    Source: http://alexachua.com/rt_1981.pdf
    I’ve listed the automotive competition of the time. How about the Mondial 8?

    Just in case I am accused of “cherry-picking numbers” Let me take the WORSE review and performance of the Mondial 8 (you know the one where they admitted the car had broken shifter that would often go from 4th gear to 2nd)

    1980 Mondial 8
    205 HP
    0-60: 9.4
    1/4: 17.1

    Source: http://alexachua.com/rt_1981.pdf

    If you take Motortrend, the Mondial beat or were as fast as the competition, the only 2 being faster is the 928 and 308gti (both 0.1 seconds faster in the 1/4 mile)
    http://alexachua.com/mtdec1981.pdf
    0-60: 8.2
    1/4: 16.3

    So what does this all mean? Ferrari was victim to new rules in 1980 (like every other automaker.) – It’s just unlike other models, it was comfortable for ‘journalists’ to keep repeating the same trope over and over again.

    The car was never given context based on the era. Sadly, these writers would regurgitate the 1980 reviews for the three iterations to come. You might be wondering, where is the 911 Turbo (or fill in any other 'faster' car) here:

    Not Available to Purchase in the USA:
    1980/1981
    1980 Audi Quattro – Not available in the US until 1982 (year Mondial QV was out)
    1980 BMW 320i Turbo – Not available in the US
    “The E21 was sold in the United States from model years 1977 to 1983 as the four-cylinder 320i and 320is. Six-cylinder models were not sold in America, because the E21 versions of the M20 engine did not meet U.S. emissions regulations at the time.”
    1980 Chevrolet Corvette L82 – Time quoted is the Non-California variant – I have talked about this above.
    1980 De Tomaso Pantera GT5 – Not available in the US
    1980 Ferrari 308 GTS – We had to make do with GTSi variant by this time) – it was only 0.1 second faster in a standard drag race.
    1980 Porsche 928 – already stated this was the faster (see above post, although I have one comparison test that shows the 8 faster)
    1980 BMW M1 – Not available in the US – had to be grey marketed
    1981 Ferrari 308 Dino GT4 – Not made in the year 1981
    1980 Jaguar XJ-S – Not available in the US
    1980 Porsche 924 Turbo – Not available in the US
    1981 Porsche 911 SC – “Due to ever more draconian emissions regulations, the 930 was withheld from the important US and Japanese markets.”

    All I can say is 1980 was probably the worse year of all time when it came to performance cars — a time when you had 180 HP Vettes and 130 HP Mustangs – For something to come out 205 HP was eye-opening in itself in that horrible time.

    One thing to note as well is I started doing analysis – I first limited it to cars that were 2+2 (I mean it’s sort of unfair to compare cars from different classes.) For example, one would not compare a Lusso to a Mclaren 720. What I found was when compared to 2+2 – the 8 was more than capable. So I extended it to strictly 2 seaters only like the Vette and Delorean and 308GTSi

    What I found was even compared to the 2 seat ‘pure’ sports cars the Mondial 8 had nothing to be ashamed about. Being behind 0.1 seconds the 308gtsi should not make any US 8 owner feel especially bad.

    Again, let me say the Mondial 8 is SLOW. No doubt about it. This is not an attempt at revisionist history. The thing I want to remind folks though is ALL BRAND US CARS (were slow the year Ronald Reagon took office. Just a conveniently left out and the most important piece of context when evaluating the “poor” performing Mondial.

    The California compliant and handicapped Mondial 8 (US Spec) represents just 2 PERCENT of all Mondials on the road.

    When Chevy/Ford/etc. Improved their fuel injection, nobody keeps repeating the ‘slow’ Corvette/Mustang/etc reviews. But with only 147 examples of Calfornia/EPA mandated (or put another way approximately 2% of all Mondials) variant of the Mondial 8s – you don’t have much of a cohort to have ‘backfire.’


    Enzo Ferrari himself was bearish on the US market in the late 70’s because before Reagon got elected (and stopped further tightening) – he predicted that regulations would only get tougher. By the time the QV came out, and Maranello figured out how to a handle on emissions-the 147 examples with the lean/’banana in the tailpipe‘ method of appeasing the bureaucrats were already on their way to fuel for click bait hungry journalists.

    Talk about a PR disaster.
     

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