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Mondial Rear Windows stuck in Down

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by soucorp, Oct 1, 2011.

  1. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
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    Hi all, I have an 1988 3.2 and both my rear windows are stuck in the down position but they both worked a month ago just fine. I checked the fuse seems okay, tested the switches in the back by plugging the front door windows to them and they worked just fine. From reading some of the threads, I went through the side vents and top rear window opening. With the limited amount of space to work with, I was able to grab the motor wires with a coat hanger. I connected the motor wires directly to a 12v battery and tried to zap it back into life but to no avail. No movement what so ever. I can't believe both motors could have gone bad at the same time, especially when they were working every time I used them. I'm tempted to unbolt the whole assembly and try to see why the motors weren't working, but was wondering if anyone had alternatives:

    1) Recommend a person or company that can rebuild the motor
    2) Find a replacement motor/assembly from Fiat
    3) Replace the whole thing with a manual hand crank (this would be so cool)

    Any help would greatly be appreciated. Thnx
     
  2. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

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    #2 soucorp, Oct 1, 2011
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  3. SonomaRik

    SonomaRik F1 Veteran
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    both motors at same time ?
     
  4. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

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    Unfortunately both have no movement. I think because I left the windows in the down position for a month, maybe the lube harden up preventing and motor movement. I dread the idea of removing the whole assembly- a real pain!!! but dont see any other way to get the cleaning and motors going! Since I only drive the Mondi on nice warm days its not priority but winter is coming quick !
     
  5. jgoodman

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    #5 jgoodman, Oct 2, 2011
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  6. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

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    Thanks Jay, I did read your thread on this, but was not as lucky, I got no response from the motor even help pulling the windows up. I think it just needs a good cleaning but I can not believe Ferrari engineers really goofed on this one, bad motor/assembly/access to repair!
     
  7. jgoodman

    jgoodman F1 Rookie
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    Did you pull the wires out of there and hook to an external 12V battery? I used my jumper cables attached to another car with the motor running to give it just that extra bit of juice to get the stuck unstuck. Then, once it was unstuck, I lithium greased the coiling thread in that channel and did the same on the passenger window and now they work like new. Best of luck.
     
  8. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

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    I did pull the wires to the rear window motor but only connected to a 12v battery that was not in car running mode. I'll try that next and using the lithium grease on the threads as you suggested. Gees I hope I get it to work, it certainly is the achilles heel of the Mondial, especially the convertibles by design!
     
  9. jgoodman

    jgoodman F1 Rookie
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    You may want to spray a little WD-40 first in the thread channel and let that soak/drip in there for a while. My little metal tapping devices didn't hurt either in the process. It wasn't working, until it was, so keep at it, especially since the full removal of the window assembly is reportedly a major PITA.
     
  10. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

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    #10 soucorp, Oct 2, 2011
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  11. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

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    #11 soucorp, Oct 2, 2011
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  12. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

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    #12 soucorp, Oct 2, 2011
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    Temporary Fix until I get to spending a day trouble shooting why the windows don't work!
    I went to Lowes Hardware store and picked up an Acrylic sheet 28inch x 30in, good for both sides. Made a template of the rear window and cut away. taped the edges with electrical tape which gives it a nice black trim. The Cabrio has inlets built into the roof which makes it so easy to slide the glass right in and has a nice tight fitting. Anyways, this will get me out of the cold and rain for now until I get to disassembling the window assembly which I am not looking forward to at all! Pics below, happy motoring!!!
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  13. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

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    #13 soucorp, Jan 2, 2012
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    After 5 months of my rear windows not working, I finally dived into how to remove the rear windows today. Of course I had to research what others have posted. Here is what I found that is worth posting again.

    (instructions For Mondials 8, QV, 3.2)
    Posted by Hetek: 11-22-2005, 01:30 PM
    It's DONE!
    For those that may attempt this in the future, here's how I did it:

    1. Remove the side grill (you're working on a Mondial, right?). One phillips head screw in the top rear corner. CAREFULLY, push the entire grill towards the front of the car to release the plastic hooks at the front ends of the fins. Again, CAREFULLY pull the ends of the fins away from the body, working each one out a little at a time (not all at once). Mine was gunked with years of wax buildup and took some coaxing. Don't break the hooks - they are a molded part of the grill assembly and are fragile plastic.

    2. Remove the black metal access panel inside the grill opening. Two phillips head screws at the top (two different sizes, keep 'em straight) and one at the bottom (that actually screws into the rear window track bracket). Inside you have access to the window motor wiring. Test away.

    3. Mine tested n/g and had to come out. Jack up the car and remove the rear tire. Yes, the rear tire. Remove the forward section of the wheel well tub (several phillips screws). This is to get access to the rear window track mounting bolt. I've read reports that it doesn't need to come out but I found that the extra 1/2" it gets you is a great help when working to remove or replace the regulator assembly.

    4. Remove the interior trim piece that goes against the window. One screw at the rear end. Remove the screw and wiggle it loose.

    6. Put the top down and remove the two bolts that connect the top frames to the car next to the window opening. Remove the bolts and fold the brackets out of the way. Be careful of the wave washers behind the plastic trim cups behind the brackets. Don't drop them down the seatbelt slot like I did. Also, don't drop the small spacers on the bolts. The next trim piece will be loose now - it is only held in place by the plastic cups. Remove the trim piece.

    7. I took off the plastic edge trim that runs the length of the window slot inside and the rubber window seal on the outside. Two reasons: The inside piece will get you and extra 1/8" of space (space is at a premium) and the outside rubber seal won't get greasy when the window track rubs on it, smearing the glass later.

    8. Remove the glass. I pried my glass out of the bottom channel - CAREFULLY. Next time I would remove the rear nylon wheel (as seen through the side access panel) and unsnap the front nylon wheel from the channel and take the window and channel out as a whole. I put it back in as a whole so I know it fits.

    9. Remove the rear window track. Remember the wheel well opening? There is one bolt at the top through there. There was the bolt you removed when taking off the access panel (it should be out already). Also, inside the car there is a nut and washer at the top that bolts down the top fabric tail flap. Remove the nut and washer and fold back the fabric tab. Behind the tab is one last bolt (a track mounting bolt that is also used for fore/aft adjustment). Mark the location of the bolt and remove. The track should come out now - twist, lift up, drop down and out. Or just plain wiggle it out. It's free.

    10. Remove the two top bolts holding the lift mechanism to the body (from inside the car). There is a bottom bolt that sits in a slotted "fork" and will release when pulled up. It may need to be loosened though.

    11. Put the track about 2/3 down if you still have the wires connected to the motor. If not, run test leads to power the motor into position. Makes life easier. I used an insulated alligator clip on the male motor connector and a banana plug on the female connector. Worked perfectly.

    12. The assembly should come up and out now. Tilt the top forward as it comes out and the two cable "loops" will clear.

    Put the mess on your bench and give it a good cleaning. I used 409 and acetone for the metal only parts. I used a plastic-safe electrical parts cleaner in a spray can for the rest. DO NOT remove the cable from the motor unless you are prepared to find dozens of tiny ball bearings when they fall out. Here, thick grease is an advantage. The bearings run around inside the motor shaft between the hollow shaft and the cable. Two clips hold the "bearing return tube" onto the end of the motor shaft. Kinda hard to explain this. I removed the clips, removed the tube, cleaned everything, and then packed the tiny bearings back in one at a time. Then reassemble the tube and clips.

    I used the entire can of cleaner and wish I had another. I cleaned the spiral windings of the cable with an old toothbrush and cleaner. Remember, the tiny ball bearings run around these spirals. I repacked and regreased with white lithium lube. Just enough, not too much. Don't fill the tube that holds the extra length of cable with lube as it will cause a hydraulic lock and will cause resistance in the mechanism. Just clean it out and lube the cable only.

    Run the motor/track assembly on the bench with test wires to be sure all is OK. If everything checks out fine, put 'er back in. Installation is the reverse of removal with one difference: When you get to the nylon wheel into the window bottom channel mating I used a pair of LONG nose pliers to squeeze them together until the wheel popped into place. Other than that, everything else was pretty straight forward. It is also helpful to have the test wires handy in case the lift mechansm needs to be powered during installation. Be careful not to bend the cable "loops". If they kink, they will bind the cable.

    Bottom line: It runs 100% better but only when run directly from the battery. That fix is next.

    Final note: I am offering this a history of how I did it and what worked for me. If you don't feel comfortable doing the same then don't. Pay a good mechanic instead. I felt that if I broke it I had no one else to blame but myself. Use this info at your own risk.

    And remember, your mileage may vary.
    Last edited by hetek; 11-22-2005 at 01:36 PM.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    (instructions For Mondial t)
    Posted by Elaine
    Detailed Instructions on Removing Rear LHS Window Regulator
    removing the rear left hand side window glass and regulator from the Mondial with glass stuck in the UP position. These instructions may not apply to glass stuck in the DOWN position but some tips might work.
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  14. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

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    #14 soucorp, Jan 2, 2012
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    Here is what I have done so far, still trying to remove the glass off the regulator, after that the whole thing is ready to come out from the top and I can clean and re-grease, rebuild the motor or replace it. Its been dreadful ! Worst when the windows are stuck down, it blocks all of the bolts and access areas! Now I see why the experts charge so much to do this, its a real pain and time consuming. Some pics I have so far but it will take me the rest of the week on this project.
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  15. Valenzo

    Valenzo F1 Veteran

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    Wow Mike, this is an amazing write up, my car is at the mechanic with the engine out and because of the talk on these motors I asked them to service and add accelerators so I won't have this issue down the road.

    Good luck and thank you for this help!!
     
  16. Lino

    Lino Formula Junior

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    Hi Mike,

    That is an amazing thread. Good luck.

    I am still waiting for the motor I orderd fron the Fiat UNO. It is lost in the mail. I will let you all know if it's a match when I get it.

    Lino
     
  17. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

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    Thanks Lino, please let us know if the Fiat motor works for you. I might need to do the same if I cant get these motors to work again.
     
  18. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    Mike,
    The Mondial community should be really thankful to have you among their ranks. This thread is simply invaluable. It's guys like you that make Ferrarichat such a great place for enthusiasts.

    Good luck with the project, I know it is horribly difficult, but keep at it! You're getting there.

    :)
     
  19. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

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    #19 soucorp, Jan 4, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012
    Thanks Joe, I'm no mechanic, IT guy by trade, but I've been taking things apart since I was a kid, (Legos helped) and always enjoyed solving problems and fixing things just for the challenge. But one thing I've always been is a passionate car guy as my wife can attest, this Ferrari is my 25th car I've own and I dive into it like my Miata, just alot more expensive, lol.
     
  20. Lino

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    #20 Lino, Jan 9, 2012
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    Hi Mike,

    I got the motor and assembly, looks almost the same. The motor is identical but the assembly differs slightly, in any case you can use the motor if that is the issue.
    I have that problem on mine, the motor has no power when it reaches the top.
    It is off a 5 door Fiat Uno. I think its a 1991.

    hope this helps, it sure helped me.

    lino
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  21. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

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    Hi Lino, thanks good to know as a backup one can use Fiat Uno motor for the rears. I have not had much garage time to do much this week but plan to bench test the motor or take it apart. Will let you know how it goes in few days.
    -Mike
     
  22. Lino

    Lino Formula Junior

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    I know what you mean, I have not started any any of my to do items on the car.

    Lino
     
  23. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

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    #23 soucorp, Jan 15, 2012
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    Finally, I got some garage time today to continue my saga of removing my rear Mondial window assembly. Good news is that I was able to pry apart the round white nylon roller out of the base holder and the glass with a long flat head screwdriver. Once apart, the glass comes out first, then the assembly/regulator unit all from the top opening. see pics below with tools used, make sure you have a telescoping magnetic stick to retrieve the screws that fell to the bottom.

    Here is the bad news, tested the motor by directly plugging it to the car battery, and nothing, only a couple of sparks at the connection points but no noise or movement from the motor, I even lightly tapped the motor with a hammer. I also tried plugging it back into its original connection wire with key in ignition, tried the buttons and nothing. I think its dead and I'm SOL.

    So at this point, does anyone know who can rebuild the motor and get it to work again that I can send it to? I read that opening the motor is not something you should do and can cause more problems if you are not familiar with what is what! If not, I may have to look for alternatives as Lino suggested using a Fiat Uno motor. It would be so cool to convert this thing to a manual crank somehow because I don't want to go thru this experience again in this life time.

    Thanks, Mike.
    ...btw, it will be just as painful putting the whole thing back in!
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  24. soucorp

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    #24 soucorp, Jan 15, 2012
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    I was just comparing Lino's 5 door Fiat Uno motor assembly with my 88 Mondial version. Some differences like Lino said but how to know that they are a compatible replacement and whats the best way to get one besides ebay? Thanks. Mike
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  25. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

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    #25 soucorp, Feb 5, 2012
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    Update: I had a local auto electric shop try to repair my rear motors but he said there was nothing he can do. The unit is 1 piece with the spring going thru the motor to push it up or down. He didn't want to break into it without a backup plan. Said the bushings were good but motor or gear could be stuck. I tried to take it apart last night but there's nothing I can see that I can fix, just need a new unit. I also looked for any used Ferrari or Fiat units but nothing out there that looks like the OEM. Lino had the closest unit from a Fiat Uno 5 dr 1991 model but even those are hard to find.
    There is a place on the net that I can send it to rebuild for $1800 a pair from (ItalianCarParts.Com) but I don't know, still thinking about that since I'm not sure how long the fix will last on an old unit. Another alternative is to buy a generic new unit ($250 a pair) and modify/fabricate to make it work like OEM. What do you guys think ?
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