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mondial info!

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by NYJETSFAN, Mar 30, 2004.

  1. NYJETSFAN

    NYJETSFAN Formula 3

    May 11, 2001
    1,093
    Kalifornia
    Full Name:
    Jr
    I have been thinking about buying a mondial, maybe a drop-top but dont seem to find to much info about them, was looking at 89 or newer do to the 348 drive train,whats a good year?

    thanks..........
     
  2. NYJETSFAN

    NYJETSFAN Formula 3

    May 11, 2001
    1,093
    Kalifornia
    Full Name:
    Jr
    any good web sites on mondials?
     
  3. sjmst

    sjmst F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 31, 2003
    9,763
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    Sam
    Plenty written about this. I think the Mondial is one of the BEST buys in Ferraris.
    I have a Mondial 8 (the cheapest because it is the “slowest”). The Mondial is a great driver. They say the 8 is slow, and I guess it is (at least off the line). But just about any Ferrari in this price range and age- or even double the price- is “slow” by modern car standards. It is still plenty fun, and I paid a LOW price. Only had one problem that effected driving and that was a fuse that made it hard to start when warm. Other than that, overall very good.
    If you have a few more bucks to spend, go with a QV (i.e., 83-85). Has more power, but looks exactly the same (except slightly better interior). Better yet is a 3.2, which ran from 86-88. These have a nice engine and sleeker integrated body colored bumpers, which look great. If I were ready to upgrade, that’s the one I’d get.
    Finally, there is the “t” from 89 on. Very nice. Upgraded interior, power steering, and good power. Maybe a bit more complicated and thus more expensive to maintain.
    As with buying any Ferrari, make sure it has had up to date service, including major, if due, and doesn’t need lots of work. All you have to see is the 25,000 f car for sale with owner claiming to have put 30,000 worth of work into it to know how much it costs to maintain the cars. I believe it. These things are more expensive to properly maintain than buy.
    Good luck
    Sam
     
  4. Modificata

    Modificata F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2003
    2,652
    Hampton, England
    Full Name:
    Andy Rasool
    OK i've just bought a mondial t a few weeks back and im very happy. Very practical, and very easy to drive around town. Power is great on the t model, and looks and sounds great.

    For a breakdown between models look at this site:
    http://www.qv500.com/ferrarimondialmr.htm

    I will say one thing. The difference between the mondials and the mondial t is massive. Here is a list I can think of:
    More power (348 engine and gearbox)
    Re-designed exterior including side sir vents and rear arches
    Redisigned dashboard and seats
    ABS
    Power steering
    Improved electronics

    I've always had more modern cars, so to have a later model suited me better. Depends on what you like and your budget. What ever you do have a look around at different models before you buy.
     
  5. abarre

    abarre Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2003
    295
    I kicked tires on several overpriced T-cabs for about a year before deciding on an '88 3.2 Cab.

    Pros for the 3.2:
    Timing belts can be changed with the engine IN THE CAR.
    No engine computer - to break etc...
    Bigger side intakes - some prefer these over the smaller ones on the T's
    No goofy passive-restraint seatbelts (came on '90 and up T's)
    Around $10-15K less for a good example
    ABS was available on the last of the 3.2's ('87 on?)

    Pros for the T:
    40 More HP - big difference in pep!
    Body-colored door handles (I actually prefer the silver ones on the 3.2 though)
    No Metric tires (although mine and many other 3.2's came from the factory with standard 16" wheels)
    Newer interior and dash - more comfortable and supportive seats.
    Power steering (is this a plus?)

    Remember that the first car Ferrari put the 3.4 transverse engine and tranny in was the '89 Mondial T's. I've heard that there were several improvements made to the '90 and up T's. '90 is also when they started making the 348's.

    The car's aren't really that fast, but they are very fun to drive.
     
  6. Modificata

    Modificata F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2003
    2,652
    Hampton, England
    Full Name:
    Andy Rasool
    Mine is a 89 t. Does anyone know what changes were made between 89 and later t's?
     
  7. rascalif

    rascalif Karting

    Dec 20, 2003
    82
    Southern California
    My best advice is to buy from an ENTHUSIAST (ie, most of the folks on this board). My first Ferrari was an '80 308 purchased from a guy who did zilch for upkeep. I spent about $10k just getting the thing to the point where it would run properly. My current car is an '86 Mondial, bought from a gentleman who is a regular on this board. The difference is night and day. The car has needed very little work and is reliable enough to be a daily driver when my other car is in the shop.
     
  8. MondialTCab

    MondialTCab Formula 3

    Sep 5, 2001
    1,020
    Pacific Northwest
    Full Name:
    John Michael Gross
    Search on my posts on this site and the old site...I have responded to this question several times so you can simply review. On the old site I was 92TCab and 89TCab so I should be fairly easy to find. You should also pick up a copy of the Ultimate Guide to Ferrari V8s so you can read more about them.

    After you do that, if you still have questions I will be happy to pop back in.

    - JMG
     
  9. norm

    norm Karting

    May 30, 2003
    204
    Rochester, NY
    Mondial Cabs are excellent Ferrari's, and a great value with current prices. As usual with all Ferrari's maint/service big issue, along with the usual books, tools.
    In addition, things to consider with the Mondial Cabs include:
    a)condition of top( will fade & get tight with age)
    b)electronics, especially fuse panel on early examples and warning lights on console
    c)interiors can be fragile( as with most Ferraris), and can be a project due to additional back seats & area
    d)condition of boots, or missing( not a cheap item to replace, regardless of if cloth or leather)
    e)missing factory cockpit cover( rarely see for sale)

    Any of the '84's up are nice cars.
     
  10. AR!

    AR! Formula Junior

    Apr 8, 2004
    974
    Berlin, Germany
    Production number of T´s ran from 80339 to 97733. The later ones are said to be more mature and reliable but I can´t tell the upgrades that have been made during production.

    Mine is a cabrio with S/N 97397 and so far it hasn´t been an overly reliable car. Only advantage I see is that is has that cool sequential gear that was only offered from 1993 as an option.

    (From Germany)
     
  11. Dom

    Dom F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 5, 2002
    7,635
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Dom V.
    A recent issue of Forza (within the last year??) had a mondial buyers guide. Definately worth picking up.

    Dom
     
  12. MondialTCab

    MondialTCab Formula 3

    Sep 5, 2001
    1,020
    Pacific Northwest
    Full Name:
    John Michael Gross
    Ok, I have more time now so I can jump into this a bit.

    Along with the Forza buyers guide for both the Coupe and Cabriolet, I highly recommend the Ultimate Buyers Guide (http://www.midlifeclassiccars.com/(r4lvbq3wzg2kp0f0tql3vvq1)/product_detail.aspx?item_guid=2e7e970a-aab3-4a63-947f-d62796b791bd)

    Reliability
    Having the 348 powertrain seems to put us in the same boat as 348 owners on the overall reliability front. I drive everyday (or most) and the car has never left me stranded. Major service is obviously a big hit and others can chime in on this but I don't feel the drivetrain is a reliability problem. Specifically what is an issue for the Mondial T seems to be the electronics in the car. Windows, switches and other assorted things all seem related to a weak alternator and fragile switch manufacturing. "It's not a Honda" covers this pretty well but safe to say, having a meter handy is a great way to keep your car on the road. I ahve cleaned most of my switches at one point or another but after a done, they seem to be reliable. Paint is a bit fragile but this seems to be a general problem for Ferraris rather than a Mondial specific problem.

    Differences
    The Forza buyer's guide will point out when the specific model number change took place, I have it at home if anyone is interested. The specific change that came with the T was the upgrade to the Motronic 2.7 from the 2.5. This allows for more extensive computer analysis of the any errors that might be reported. Having owned both in a 92 and 89, it seems to me that any issues that have come up have been dealt with by my very compentant mechanic and thus I have felt no "pain" as a result of living in the motronic 2.5 world. Other than this, the only published changes between the 89 and later models (based on the serial number listed in Forza Buyer's guide) is the change in safety equipment. The mouse belts and under dash submarining pad up front, three pointers in the rear. The combination of all reduces space in the car fairly significantly. To offer the mouse belts in the cab, they built a box similar to an armrest in between the rear seats and routed the belt over the inside shoulder. This reduces the rear seat space and if you have kids that use the car, makes it difficult to enter from one side. Not an issue if two adults are riding but clearly a pain in the ass if you are the only adult and adding two kids to the back. The mouse belts are also notoriously fragile in most Ferrari models (haven't really seen anything positive actually) and they don't really offer a secure fit if that is your interest when driving.

    After losing my 92, I decided that I would specifically target any US model that offered relief from the annoying mouse driven belts and after looking at a bunch of cars, it appears as though all US 90 or greater models only came with mouse belts. (Later models also added 3 point belts to the rear...not exactly sure but I think the change was in 91 or 92.) Thus, you are limited to the 89 if you go this route.

    Other than that, the sum of changes for the entire production run was fairly minimal other than the addition of the Valeo clutch-pedal-less option in the 93 model. I drove one of these and while it worked fine, it felt rather weird as each shift felt much like a leap of faith. (And given the overall electronics on these cars, probably a source of problems in the future.)

    - JMG
     
  13. norm

    norm Karting

    May 30, 2003
    204
    Rochester, NY
    Mondials with the Valeo clutch were problematic to say the least. i can't wait to see what repairs will look like in 10 years with these F-1 trannys.
     
  14. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 31, 2001
    14,143
    Florida or Argentina
    Full Name:
    Martin W.
    I have a 89 Mondial T Convertible. I think the owner is getting antsy. Red/tan won Platinum at Cavallino Classic in 2003.

    Martin

    www.4Ferrari.com

    Mondials are under apprechiated that is for sure. Its the typical 4-seater problem.
     
  15. ian_jory

    ian_jory Karting

    Apr 13, 2004
    52
    UK
    Full Name:
    Ian
    I have an 83 Mondial QV and I too have experienced a warm starting problem - so I am intrigued by what you say was a 'fuse' issue?

    The first time I had this problem the dealer told me this was v. common and I should disconnect the Cold Start electrics (blue plug under the right hand side of the plenum chamber) - to start from cold you just hold the pedal to the floor and crank it, release the throttle when it catches. This done, it worked okay for a while but the last time I took the car out (a few days ago) I let it warm up on the driveway, drove the car for about 10 miles, parked up, came back to it about an hour later and it would not start, cranked it over up to 10-15 seconds at a time... nothing!!! Not even a smell of petrol! In the end I called out the AA (Automobile Association, I'm in the UK) - while waiting I thought I'd give it another try - and sure enough it fired up! At this point the AA guy turns up. So we decide to do some investigation... Switch off, try starting it again.. same problem, no go! Check out the current to the fuel pump - within acceptable tolerences (can't remember exactly what the tolerence should be - but it was okay), checked out the high tension from the coil - healthy spark! Checked out a plug, healthy spark!, openend up the air box and fiddled with the pressure pad while cranking the engine - appropriate resistance, suggesting all okay). Basically - nothing obviously wrong but sometimes it would start, sometimes it wouldn't!! Maybe I am missing a technique for starting warm Ferrari, FI, V8, QV engines - do I press the throttle a bit, a lot, not at all??

    So.... back to my original question for Sam Germana - what was the 'fuse' issue you found and how was it resolved? Maybe it is the same on my car.. if anyone has any other thoughts, I'd welcome some help! A genuine fault with a car is tolerable- but not being sure when it's next going to let you down is a nightmare!
     
  16. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jan 21, 2004
    1,475
    Argent/Brasil/Blgium
    Full Name:
    Guido
    For a cold start is written in the manual :
    -put gear level in neutral
    -depress clutch pedal
    -do not press accelerator pedal
    -turn over key and let engine spring on without pressing acc pedal.
    -do not press accelerator pedal until oil temp did reached 149-158°F
    For a Hot Engine start :
    -same operation as cold start
    -it might be usefull for VERY hot engine to slightly press acc pedal.

    My experience is that I dont touch the accelerator pedal until the engine is warm. With a hot engine I only press the acc pedal after the engine already turns over.
    I think it depends also what climat you live.
    Guido
     
  17. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    Dec 7, 2003
    15,304
    Winston Salem, NC
    Full Name:
    Daniel
    Read through some of the "348 hot start" threads on this board, and you'll find how the viscosity of the trans oil & clutch depressed can make a world of difference on a hot start.

    -Daniel
     
  18. sjmst

    sjmst F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 31, 2003
    9,763
    Long Island, NY
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    Sam
    I will have to check the RO to see what they did.
    Sam
     
  19. ian_jory

    ian_jory Karting

    Apr 13, 2004
    52
    UK
    Full Name:
    Ian
    Thanks. This weekend I am going to try to run some experiments and try the operations suggested - this time making sure I return home before switching off the engine!!
    I have to say, my preferred approach when starting from hot has always been not to touch the accelerator until the engine is turning over and about to fire - and then only gradually pushing it down, until it fires up completely. Though when I had the trouble last week this was not working at all. Whether the engine fired or not seemed completely random! Having said that, I cannot remember exactly what I did each time I tried staring it - which is why I will run more controlled tests this weekend.
     
  20. ian_jory

    ian_jory Karting

    Apr 13, 2004
    52
    UK
    Full Name:
    Ian
    As per reply just posted, I'm going to check out the problem a bit more this weekend, but if you can find out what they did (re the fuse) it would be greatly appreciated - as it might be a simple solution to the problem I have.
     
  21. jscar71

    jscar71 Formula Junior

    Jul 14, 2004
    354
    Montreal Qc, Canada
    Full Name:
    JScar
    I had this problem on my 84 Mondial; for me it was the crank sensor cable, from what I understand there are 2 of them. Change both, I changed one and the other went soon after.
     
  22. Philjay50

    Philjay50 Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2003
    582
    Chester, England
    Full Name:
    Philip
    I will have to put my 2 pence worth in now. Mine is an 84 qv, and in answer to one of the questions about buying, I bought mine blind, I was looking for a Porche but bought a Ferrari (somewhere here is the story, it's longish and boring). Got the car home and within a few days would only run on one bank of cylinders, after a lot of time and effort, the problem was solved by changing a TDC sensor. Also the gear change was really bad, a change of oil cured that.
    Apart from that the car has been good, Bearing in mind it's 20 years old. I am not into doing track days in it, my wife and I have used it for holidays home and abroad and for this it is super. Bags of space and cruises effortlessly.
    Now the starting, When cold touch nothing and it starts after a couple of cranks, when hot, some thottle and a few more cranks and it's away.
    Love it. I sometimes think about going up the market but the complexity of the newer one 's puts me off to be honest.
    Whatever you get, you will enjoy it !!
     
  23. gfarrell@operamail.com

    Aug 25, 2004
    8
    Switzerland
    I found this to be an interesting thread, as I am a "348 convert". My last fcar was a 1990 348ts which had 45k kilometers on it and was in very good shape. Unfortunately, in the euphoria of buying it, I did not do my homework and got stuck with the "Major Service with Timeing Belt". Here in Switzerland, that comes to about $6000.00. In other words, folks if you are looking to buy a 348, make sure this has been done.

    I sold that car and vowed that my next fcar would not need the engine out for this service. This brings me to my present car, a 1988 3.2. After owning both, I can tell you that IMHO, the Mondial is superior in every way. Four seats, more reliable, and the purchase price leaves room for after purchase upgrades (go to Hill Engineerings Website, you won't regret buying their shift gate) and repairs.

    First Ferrari...buy a 3.2 and get to know the brand. They have already depreciated, so you will be able to sell it (if you buy smart) for almost what you paid for it, and you will really see if you are a fnut like the rest of us.

    By the way....those who say that the 348 is faster....it is slightly true, but tuned Fiat Puntos will still be able to pass you. Believe me, I experienced it first hand. So, save your money, get some room and buy that MONDIAL!

    As this thread already pointed out, pass on the 3.4T, it will give you the same headaches a 348 will and will cost you more to acquire. Sorry Mondial T owners, the truth had to be said
     
  24. MondialTCab

    MondialTCab Formula 3

    Sep 5, 2001
    1,020
    Pacific Northwest
    Full Name:
    John Michael Gross
    The truth indeed...but depending on where you live, how you drive the car and what you are looking for and the T is a significantly different car the the 3.2 and previous generations. For me, sporting daily driver considerations weighed heavily on the decision and I found the combination of additional power, better handling, more comfortable interior, ABS and power steering to outweigh that which you have already highlighted.

    The bottom line is that none of these cars compares with a stock sedan of the same generation when it comes to repair costs, parts availability and general build quality. I would never buy my kids an 89 T or 88 3.2 as they could not afford the repair costs...but I would consider it for a Honda for instance. (They are still young enough that they get dropped in the back of the T Cab though...)

    - JMG
     
  25. hank sound

    hank sound F1 Veteran

    Jan 31, 2004
    5,786
    Burbank, CA
    Full Name:
    Hank Garfield
    Hi gang,
    I can't add too much to this thread as regards my "owning & driving experience" since I have had "Rachel", my 92 Valeo t Cab, for about 100 HOURS!!! It's a learning process but I do have my first impressions - - She is very fast! - I'm learning to shift smoothly with the Valeo clutch. Man, the clutch operation is lightlning fast! With my slick-shift gate, I will learn to do it justice. The car feels unbelievably solid as I can't detect one rattle or vibration. I've got loads of room for any fun stuff like more people, beach chairs, cooler, luggage etc.
    The seats would be problematic if I were overweight - luckily, I'm not. The sub-pad at the bottom of the dash is a nice interior addition to the 90s and on. Overall, the interior is beautiful - leather everywhere you look but its done in a businesslike fashion.

    I chose the Mondial simply because it opened up more options for me - and, it's stunning IMO.

    Good luck & Cheers, Hank
     

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