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Mission Impossible!

Discussion in '206/246' started by sturrisi, Apr 11, 2021.

  1. sturrisi

    sturrisi Rookie
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    Apr 24, 2007
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    Guys, Yesterday was a good day as far as Dino door pin removal, today not so good. Spent 1/2 day trying to remove the last pin (right hand side upper pin) but no luck. I have hammered and hammered and heated and hammered and heated and hammered but the pin did not move at all.
    All I've ended up doing was deforming the pin end but it did not budge.
    When things don't work out, the best thing is to walk away from it, sleep on it and see if there is another way.
    I'm ready to cut the end of the pin off but I'm not sure it will help much.
    Any suggestions? All help much appreciated.
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  3. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
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    #27 dgt, Apr 19, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
    Good you got this far! Coincidentally this is the same pin I had the worst time with.
    I cut the top off and drilled an 8mm blind pilot hole 5mm down in the top so the drift can locate below the top of the hinge to prevent mushrooming the top or slipping off.
    Go at it with a long drift and large hammer or air chisel. You can also drill down a bit further if you don't go sideways into the hinge as the bit will be on a slight angle due to the front panel being in the way. Drilling out the pin more will help release the top half. A torch might help if you heat it.
    Be careful of the edge of the front fender, tape some blocks/padding there in case you mis-strike it.
    It's actually going better than I expected! Not bad...

    edit: you could take time to make a pin punch combined with a steel frame with a notch cut out to fit around the front fender so you can hit or air chisel it dead straight.
     
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  4. racerboy9

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    Extra long drill bits have some flex to them that would allow you to drill a bit deeper without hitting the sidewalls of the hinge.
     
  5. pshoejberg

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    Heat is only effective if you obtain a close to red'ish color on the steel.....You are fare from that temperature looking at the paint left in place. I agree with Andrews suggestion. You need to remove the top of the pin because you made a good old blacksmith rivet and it will only become tighter from here unless you remove some material. You are slowly getting there, 3 out of 4 is not a bad statistic...-:)


    Best, Peter
     
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  6. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie
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    are you supporting the door with a jack to eliminate and binding on the pin?
     
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  8. sturrisi

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    Mission Impossible! - Not totally impossible but almost.

    Mission Accomplished! - Last pin finally out.

    What an ordeal. That final door pin finally out. I wish to thank all who helped me achieve this with their advice which gave me the confidence that it was not impossible and that it could be done. Thank you all, you have been terrific. I can't thank you enough.

    The path that I took is as follows:
    1. I drilled the pin, first with a 3 mm drill and then expanded the hole to 5 mm and finally to 7 mm. The most difficult part of this was to maintain the center alignment of the pin.
    2. I pounded it with a 2lb hammer but this again did not make much of an impact.
    3. I soaked it in oil over and over again and kept pounding more and more in frustration. Still no movement.
    4. Slept on it overnight hoping that the oil would create some magic. No such luck!
    5. Bit more pounding but still nothing
    6. Put some intense heat on it using MAPP torch. ( I no longer have oxy-acetylene, I gave it up although it would have been nice to have on this occasion)
    7. Tried the air chisel several times as suggested by Peter lots of vibration but not much movement.
    8. More oil and more pounding and then, in amazement the pin moved about 1 cm and then no more.
    9. More pounding and the the drift punch snapped broken in 2 from all the pounding I had given it.
    10. Down to the auto shop to buy a new drift. They did not sell individual ones and had to buy the set.
    11. Try again but found that the new drift had a thicker handle than the old one and this interfered with curvature of the door and so was not able to use it.
    12. Able to apply a vice grip to the bottom of the pin and was able to move the door back and forward and apply more oil and this seemed to free up where the pin was frozen onto the hinge. Continued to do this until the door started to swing more freely while having the vice grip on and holding the pin from rotating.
    13. Since the new drift/punch was useless, I started to look for an alternate.
    14. Found an old 6x300 mm stainless steel rod that I had salvaged some time in my past and used that to continue to pound the pin.
    15. Elation! the pin is moving, just a little, but it was moving.
    16. More pounding and finally in what was felt was almost a joyful anti-climax. THE PIN IS OUT!
    17. Mission Accomplished!

    Now just some pictures of the process
    I hope that this may help some else in the future Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  9. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

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    Well done, the pin looks brand new, good enough to reuse:)
     
  10. racerboy9

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    I think we ought to make greasing those hinge pins a yearly ritual. If not for us, for the next owner.
     
  11. dgt

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  13. daviekj

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    Well done Sam, and thank you for taking the time to describe the issues so others will know what may be needed. I think this whole thread will encourage many of us to go out and lubricate our hinges, and routinely as raceaboy9 commented... Kevin
     
  14. sturrisi

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    OK. Now that I know that I can remove the doors, the next step will be to remove the glass from the door ( both the window glass and the vent window) in preparation to getting it onto the rotisserie. Any useful hints on their removal would be greatly appreciated.
    Sam
     
  15. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
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    Sam, I didn't have any photos of this but roughly... with the door laying flat with the window up (closed)
    1. remove the door lock mechanism/catch/window winder handle/winder mechanism and all cables - one pulley is bolted on, remove it (take photos of the cables so you know how to route over the pulleys)
    2. undo the bolts on the front vent 1/4 glass frame, I think there's one in the middle and bottom to hold the slider in place plus some some screws and perhaps a rivet on the top. Pull the 1/4 frame down into the door an inch or two to make room to slip the glass from the front track.
    3. put some rags under the glass and slide it down in case it drops back into the door, wiggle it out of the front track. Try and pull the felt slider from the tracks if it's tight to get the window over the track.
    4. take the 1/4 glass frame out and take the main glass out through the top of the door panel. There is a notch bent into the door frame to pull the 1/4 frame through at the thickest point.

    Note you can't remove the outer window scraper until everything is out. This is attached with flat head rivets, make sure you use these putting it back else they may scrape the glass when it open/closes.

    Others might want to add more detail, this was from memory so no doubt I forgot something... there is probably a thread on this too but I didn't search...
     
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  16. sturrisi

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    Andrew,
    That's terrific. Thank you for the detailed description of the process, now I will see if I can put it into action.
    You say to lay the door flat. I guess that means the door needs to be off the car. I was going to attempt it with the door still hanging on the car.
     
  17. TonyL

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    [

    Much better to do it on the car, less chance of damaging the door skin.
     
  18. dgt

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    Either is doable but you're going to repaint it so I lay them flat on a table on a towel so the glass doesn't drop and break when the cables are removed.
     
  19. pshoejberg

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  20. sturrisi

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    Thanks to Andrew, Peter and Tony.
    Today I spent a little more time on the car. Working on the RHS door, I removed all the screws, nuts and bolts that hold the 1/4 vent frame in place. I did this with the door still attached because I thought it was easier to do this part with the door still on the car.
    Could not get any movement down of the frame. I thought that the sealing rubber could be the cause, so I removed the rubber ( was going to be replaced anyway). This made no difference.
    Took the door off and placed in on a table as Andrew and Peter suggested and tried to maneuver the frame down but with out much success. I can't see anything that might be stopping it but there you have it.
    I walked away from it disappointed but I don't want to break the glass. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks.
    Sam
     
  21. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
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    Did you get the screws along the top edge of the door frame? There's 3-4 of them, assuming it's stuck into the top of door frame from your description
    Is the 1/4 frame loose and moves back and forth? if so try wiggling to loosen the top.
     
  22. russh

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    Hi, I remember following this process in the workshop manual for removing the vent window and side window.
     

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  23. russh

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  24. synchro

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    Dennison International restored my Dino and they needed to fit the stripped doors while performing metal prep. They lathed and tapered two bolts the correct size which were firm but could be easily removed. You may need a tool like these for temporary fitment




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  25. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
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    Sam, I seem to recall an L-bracket and rivet at the top of the 1/4 window frame - maybe slide the glass down and pull the felt guides to check?
     
  26. sturrisi

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    Yes Andrew, all screws and fasteners are out.
    You are right, there is a small L-shaped bracket at the top held with 2 rivets and these can easily be drilled out but I don't think it would help. I can move the channel down a little ( maybe 2-3 mm) using a flat screw driver at this end but where I can't get any movement at all is at the front of the door and there I really can't find any leverage point on that part of the door. Do you think I could tap it down with a small hammer and punch or would it risk breaking the glass?
     
  27. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
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    I suspect you could grab the lower 1/4 frame rail and wiggle it to release.
    I have some frames/doors disassembled in my shop, I'll check tomorrow and take some photos so you can see if there's anything else to undo.
     
  28. sturrisi

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    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Thank you all and on this occasion a particular thanks to Andrew and Russell.
    Yes, the door glass is out.

    Andrew, as it turned out, the channel was stuck toward the front of the door because it was a tight fit and there were early signs of rusting. Not to be unexpected after 50 years.
    After I removed the sealing rubber of the 1/4 window, I started to lever it out of the channel from the top using a flat screw driver. This seemed to work at the top but not so much at the bottom where it did not want to budge, ( The story of my life with this car).
    Reluctantly, mindful of not wanting the shatter the glass, I took to it with a a small hammer and punch and started tapping the lower front section and after repeated small tapping, it finally gave way and I was able to slide it down, take the window glass out and the the 1/4 window itself.
    The next challenge will be removal of the locking mechanism. That's for another day.
    After that it will go on the rotisserie to continue with the restoration.
     
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