News

Merc DAS banned for 2021

Discussion in 'F1' started by TheMayor, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11939758/mercedes-das-innovation-wont-be-allowed-under-f1-2021-rules


    Mercedes' innovative moving steering wheel will only be able to be used in 2020 with the device already effectively outlawed by the 2021 regulations.

    As rival teams consider whether or not to introduce their own DAS - Dual-Axis Steering - device for the forthcoming season after Mercedes shocked the sport with its introducion during Test One, it has been confirmed that such a device would not be allowed next year - when F1's rules are being overhauled.
     
  2. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie
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    They are a bit slow out of the blocks on that one, the FIA banned it in October 2019 when the 2021 Technical regulations were published, nobody in the F1 circus noticed the insertion of this ruling in an otherwise standard clause used for years.


    10.5.2 The re-alignment of the steered wheels, as defined by the position of the inboard attachment of the relevant suspensions members that remain a fixed distance from each other, must be uniquely defined by a monotonic function of the rotational position of a single steering wheel.


    Which begs the question that it was inserted once the FIA knew of Mercedes new "device" prior to oct 19
     
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  3. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie
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    how does das work?
     
  4. subirg

    subirg F1 Rookie

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    Yes. That’s pretty clear. Merc ran the new device past the fia to check legality prior to then. The FIA has clearly given a positive response to Merc and then noticed that DAS was only allowed because of a rules loop hole in the 2020 regs which are already locked down, so took action to close that in the 2021 regs. It’s clear that DAS was never expected to be invented.

    Personally, I think the sport should be encouraging innovation but this just shows that the FIA is seeking to lock down the regs so tightly that the opportunity to innovate is very limited. Shame.
     
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  5. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    I can imagine a system that keeps the distance between the toe arms equal, but also moves them fore (into turn) and aft (straights) by steering angle only.
    I believe that they can be so articulated by a monotonic function, too.
     
  6. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    So now, all the other teams are undoubtedly designing their own DAS systems for 2020. I wonder how long that will take, and how effective they will be?
     
  7. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    Ferrari said mid season if they build one. Why invest if banned in 21
     
  8. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

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    “The DAS system is something we considered in the past but we didn’t design and develop,” Binotto said. “The reason, first, is merely a legality matter, which we didn’t clarify with the FIA at the time. Second, we believe it is not worthwhile for our car and our car concept. We are looking at what the others doing. At the moment it is really a question mark. I’m not sure we will develop it."

    Aha so Ferrari did think about it before!:rolleyes:

    https://racer.com/2020/02/26/binotto-ferrari-opted-against-das-due-to-legality-concerns/
     
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  9. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    #10 Igor Ound, Feb 26, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
    Just like the secret pirelli tests and knowing the hybrid PU specs 1 year in advance, Mercedes make their own cake and eat it too.

    But it’s all ok as it’s British ingenuity! Bring on Brexit!

    should be called MIA!
     
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  10. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Because it could bring an advantage in 2020, no ?
    Championships are won one year at the time.
     
  11. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Sadly those facts are all brushed aside...
     
  12. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    The supply of Merc safety cars are still paying dividends then ?

    Another cruise to victory for Mercedes in 2020
     
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  13. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Laughable comment . :rolleyes:
     
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  14. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper F1 World Champ
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    This is funny. "We'll let you have an unfair advantage, but only for this season." Next year it will be something else.
     
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  15. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    FIXED IT
     
  16. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    How can it be an "unfair advantage" if it's allowed?

    All credit to MB for being innovative and bring a different solution.
     
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  17. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Even if the system will be banned in 2021, it's still legal in 2020, and could make a difference in the outcome of the championship.

    The other teams could try to catch up, but prefer not too. Defeatist attitude.

    Now you know why Mercedes is a winning team; they keep fighting when others give up.

    That's why I admire them !
     
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  18. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    Tongue-firmly-in-cheek.

    But the cozy relationship between FIA and Mercedes remains, and free safety cars have not hurt.
     
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  19. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    If others gave up they wouldn't continue with F1 each year.

    And Ferrari does not need F1 to sell its road cars ;)
     
  20. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Other teams don't try to catch up with Mercedes in 2020, because the steering system used will be banned in 2021.
    It's a very short-sighted attitude, since they may simply hand over the championship on a plate to Mercedes.
     
  21. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 Veteran
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    Wolff: DAS not worth 'two seconds'

    Toto Wolff has denied that Mercedes' drivers will get a huge advantage from the new 'DAS' innovation.

    Observers of on-board footage of the silver cars in the Barcelona test noticed Lewis Hamilton and Valtteri Bottas often pulling and pushing on the steering wheel, which adjusts the 'toe' of the front wheels.

    It is assumed that the advantage is less understeer in the corners, an aerodynamic advantage on the straight, and better control over tyre heating.

    "On paper there could be several benefits," former Minardi tester Matteo Bobbi told Sky Italia.

    "If Mercedes decides to really develop the system, they will have a myriad of options and ways to use it. My impression is that it has been designed to do more than what we have seen."

    Six time world champion Hamilton has tried to play DAS down, insisting he doesn't always use it when driving Mercedes' 2020 car.

    "Sometimes I used it and sometimes I didn't. I don't know how much we will use it in the season," he said.


    But Bottas admitted that it is an obvious benefit.

    "There is no reason not to use it," said the Finn. "We have definitely learned a lot more about it and how to use it as drivers.

    "We are happy to have it on the car and it works without having to think about it too much. We are using it because we believe it is an advantage," Bottas added.

    Team boss Wolff, however, joined Hamilton in playing down the system.

    "We don't want to reveal too much about it yet, but whoever thinks it will give us two seconds is wrong," he told Bild am Sonntag newspaper.

    "It is one of many innovations on the new car. Ultimately, it is the overall package that is crucial."

    https://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/wolff-das-not-worth-two-seconds/
     
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  22. ingegnere

    ingegnere Formula 3
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    So was this something Allison saw at Ferrari and got it developed at Mercedes?
     
  23. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    I'm sure the DAS is a diversion, Brackley will have fruitier new tricks at the rear of their car.
     
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  24. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Well, that's your take on it.
    I see it differently.
     

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