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How should recreations (rebodies) be handled in Vintage?

Discussion in 'Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies' started by yale, Apr 4, 2012.

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How should recreations (rebodies) be handled in Vintage?

  1. As is, recreation discussion happens in vintage as what the Ferrari once was (250 GTE).

  2. Create a subforum under vintage to discuss all recreations and rebodies (replicas go to Off Topic).

  3. Create a subforum under Ferrari Models for all recreations and rebodies (250 GTE/GTO to 308/288 GTO)

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Zedtt

    Zedtt Formula Junior

    May 29, 2005
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    Terry
    Right, I like this approach. Let's keep Vintage as pure as possible because that's really where the soul of Ferrari lives...without it, we have nothing. SubForum or unique thread for rebodies with Ferrari equipment is also important because everyone, including Vintage enthusiasts, will be able to keep track of engines and other parts that came out of Vintage cars. That can be useful when you're trying to trace vehicle history.
     
  2. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
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    george burgess
    This thread brings up a good subject which will need clarification as things preceed with the replica/reproduction issue.For those who are interested and have not read the "Blue and Yellow " thread please do so.Though the subject is a 250 GTO the same story could, in general, apply to the mid engine P series, 250 LWB, 250 SWB, 250 TR, and other series model cars. Should 3447 and others like it be considered as "generally accepted as original" and not included in a "replica/reproduction sub forum or not. My vote is to not include these cars as they are they are accepted by the FCA and other Concourse and Historic competition organizers to be judged or raced. To try to include them in "replica/reproduction" sub forum would I feel cause considerable controversy which should be avoided from the beginning. There are a number of other individual "rebodies" some of which I have mentioned in other threads and posts which I think also shoud be considered as "generally accepted as original". Anyhow, this is a subject that I think should be clarified right from the begining. tongascrew
     
  3. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    my thoughts are to use FCA and Ferrari acceptance and certification as a starting point, there will certainly be a few cases that we go from there to discus and maybe even come to a better end than FCA/Ferrari did.
     
  4. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    Good, I agree. This will allow for the many cars that are not technicly "original" but "generally accepted as original" by the FCA,Classiche etc to continue as judged and accepted as they are now. By trying to include any of these in this effort would just create totally unnecessary problems and controversy. If and when there are questions about an individual chassis it can be presented to the FCA etc and based on their assesment a decision can be made. Even with this there probably be some controversy from time to time. So what else is new. Keep us posted on your efferts. thanks much tongascrew
     
  5. francisn

    francisn Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
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    The trouble with trying to be over prescriptive with the way we sort things is that there are always exceptions and we will no doubt then have long threads arguing about whether a post is or is not in the right place.

    just off the top of my head, where would David Piper's 330P4 0900 fit into this proposed new structure? No one is claiming it is "original" but it was built in period from largely original parts and raced in period with a more eminent history than many "pure" Ferraris. As I understand it Classiche will not certify it and I doubt it's ever been near the FCA but surely we would be doing ourselves a disservice if we were to relegate any future discussion on it to some minor sub thread.

    So you could say, "ah - but that's an exception". But I'm sure there are more "exceptions" and we will forever argue about them.
     
  6. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    0900 never raced in major races so far as I know. What "eminent History"?

    What 0900 is and isn't is well known, fully disclosed and has fully be discussed in Vintage.

    Replica Chassis. 350 Can Am motor and gear box. 0860's original P4 Spyder Body.

    Ferrari has recognised David's 0900 on it's website describing it's participation in the Ferrari Historic Challenge when it raced there. (Not sure if they later removed that web reference)

    312PB 0900 and David's 0900 are a lot different than a 250 GTE pretending to be a 250 GTO or the replica 312PB being offered for sale that claims it would be welcome at Ferrari Events and Races which I personally doubt and JH who built it as a former NART mechanic which I also personally doubt.
     
  7. GTE

    GTE F1 Veteran

    Jun 24, 2004
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    +1

    also, there will probably always be grey areas no matter how you choose too divide things. That is not a reason to not choose Rob's proposal, which simply makes the most sense.
     
  8. francisn

    francisn Formula 3

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    I may not have worded my post too well. I don't disagree with what Jim wrote, what I was trying to get over is that just relying on Classiche or FCA doesn't cover all eventualities and will anyway be a bit of a laborious process if that is how arbitration on the inevitable "grey" cases appear in this section. However things are split up I suspect we are still going to have regular " discussions" on where some threads should end up.

    But let's give it a go. If it doesn't work it can always be changed back. Anything to bring this (to me) now rather interminable thread to a close the better :)
     
  9. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    :)
     
  10. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    1 more day, speak now or forever hold your replica piece. ;)
     
  11. simon klein

    simon klein F1 World Champ
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    TGFT!!
     
  12. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I like this idea "Create a subforum under Ferrari Models for all recreations and rebodies (250 GTE/GTO to 308/288 GTO)".
     
  13. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    The cars that are "generally accepted as original" are clearly defined by the FCA,Classiche certifications and other internationally accepted Ferrari organizations. My opinon about the three Piper built P4 cars is that they fall into my " Category A Replicas". The P4 community has a their cars well doccumented for what they are and there should be no problem here. If you look at the "fake" 250 GTOs,250 SWB berlinettas,250 LWB berlinettas, 166 Touring MM, and others, these are the cars that need to be defined and doccumented pubicly. Both my definition and Jim"s clearly allow plenty of room by definition to include these. Yes, as I said, there will be some controversy from time to time but there is plenty of room here for compromise to work things out. The bottom line here is to provide open factual data about a large group of "Ferrari" cars which until now have had little or no public organization. Thanks for myour interest. tongascrew
     
  14. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    Eather a car has one of the Classiche certifications. is accepted as original by the FCA and other accepted Concourse judging organizatios as "original" or is not.The owner need only provide valid doccumentation to establish "originality" to settle this. It seems pretty un- laborious to me and as close to an acceptable process as is possible. tongascrew
     
  15. francisn

    francisn Formula 3

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    You aren't really suggesting that we contact owners before we decide in which part of a forum we are allowed to discuss their car are you? :-o
     
  16. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    Jim I agree. My only comment is if we can get it right the first time it will eliminate a lot of additional controversy. I think Bob is on the right track and we should encourage his efforts however we can. tongascrew
     
  17. 275gtb6c

    275gtb6c Formula 3
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    Booooorrrriing.....

    Try another website with these discussions, fakechat.com or so, but the last couple of months my contribution was zero to this chat site as the discussions of fakes are not my piece of cake.

    Why posting now? Because I am fed up. Someone needs to say it.
    Ciao
    Oscar
     
  18. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    If ever there was an example for the need of an replica/reproduction thread this is it. If this sale was supported by the proper detailed doccumentation which should be posted with any sale promotion it would clear up almost all the questions asked in this thread.Details of the doccumentation could still be discussed and any monetary value debated but a clear bottom line is established and the claimed detailed provenance of the car out in the open. tongascrew
     
  19. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    you aren't capable of ignoring the 5-10 rebody/recreation threads for the 90-95 vintage threads you want to view?
     
  20. tritone

    tritone F1 Rookie
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    +1


    (I know, I know; now it's replica posts too...)
     
  21. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Come on Oscar, you cant say this would be boring

    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=363994

    Andrew
     
  22. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    Owners certainly should be able to participate in any replica/reproduction sub forum. From what I understand most are quite open about the provenance of thair cars and will be prepared to participate in the construction of an honest evaluation of, not only what they currently own but what they may have owned or have had experience with in the past.tongascrew
     
  23. francisn

    francisn Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
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    Absolutely agree with all that. I read what you originally wrote as meaning that we should contact the owners before deciding where we discussed the car. Apologies of I got you wrong.
     
  24. maserich

    maserich Karting

    Mar 13, 2008
    161
    What about 0627?
     
  25. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    OK, I think the best experiment to start with is "Create a subforum under vintage to discuss all recreations and rebodies (replicas go to Off Topic)". It was voted for the most while 65% wanted to do something and those that didn't will still find this new subforum under Vintage. The best thing is we can adjust this in the future and easily revert back to the way it is now.

    I will implement this later today. Thanks everyone for you input!
     

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