Anyone recognize this? 312PB for sale... | FerrariChat

Anyone recognize this? 312PB for sale...

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by CornersWell, Apr 15, 2012.

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  1. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
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    #1 CornersWell, Apr 15, 2012
  2. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Joe Mansion
    #2 amenasce, Apr 15, 2012
    Oh god. I need this.
     
  3. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    May 28, 2003
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    Bastuna
    #3 sherpa23, Apr 16, 2012
    I've seen this car in person and it really does look the part. I've looked closely at it with all the body panels removed and inspected the engine, the mounting points, etc.

    That said, I have no idea how you tell what this is. I am absolutely no expert but from what I can tell it has a lot of period correct Ferrari bits and has been raced in a variety of historic events open to cars from its era. I think that the only person who can tell you if it's the original car or the "evil twin" would be John Hajduk himself. And since he doesn't talk to a whole lot of people, I guess very few would ever know. Although there is at least one prominent person that I know of on here who can probably get the real story.

    However, with all of that out there, if you take it for what it is - an incredible race car made with the best that Italy had to offer for its time, this car is pure magic.

    So if you want the car for what it is, I think you're safe. If you want it for its place in history and its provenance, I guess there's some serious due diligence to be done. I have no idea of the correct value for either scenario.
     
  4. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    #4 tomgt, Apr 16, 2012
  5. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,874
    #5 CornersWell, Apr 16, 2012
    Re-try it, Tom.

    BTW, did you get my email re: the 550GT?

    Thanks,

    CW
     
  6. tomkatf

    tomkatf F1 Rookie
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    #6 tomkatf, Apr 16, 2012
    Here's the description:

    "Built 20 Years Ago by one of the original NART mechanics John Hajduk. Very correct copy. Built with Formula 1 Spec 312 Engine and Transmission. All correct Ferrari Uprights, Wheels, Gauges, etc. . . Every rivet and weld is correct. Car has just enough of the proper patina to pass the acid test at any Ferrari event. Own the only one on the planet for a tenth of the cost. Ready to vintage race or enjoy at any Ferrari event. Has to bee seen to appreciate. Interesting trades considered."

    Stated as a copy...

    Best,
    Tom
     
  7. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    Bastuna
    #7 sherpa23, Apr 16, 2012
    It certainly does say that and who am I to argue. However, i will add that the PO thought that there might be some confusion as to which is which. That's all.
     
  8. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
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    #8 CornersWell, Apr 17, 2012
    My interest was in determining if this was the 0872 replica offered in Denver for a LONG time. We established that it is, and, apparently, it's moved on. I wonder if it was sold or merely moved to a new dealer/broker? Either way, while a VERY neat car, it's got some big issues.

    CW
     
  9. The Red Baron

    The Red Baron Formula 3

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    Warren
    #9 The Red Baron, Apr 17, 2012
  10. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Joe Mansion
    #10 amenasce, Apr 17, 2012
    $1.1M is insane.
     
  11. geno berns

    geno berns F1 Rookie

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    #11 geno berns, Apr 17, 2012
    Big issues? How so?

    Thanks,

    Geno


     
  12. MSPV12

    MSPV12 Karting

    Jun 18, 2008
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    #12 MSPV12, Apr 19, 2012
    Depends upon who is paying and for what reason.
     
  13. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

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    #13 CornersWell, Apr 20, 2012
    Well, for starters, this is a replica and is not Classiche certifiable in any way. That may or may not be a problem for a buyer. Then, however, the motor (IIRC) is not correct (it's ex-F1). Then there was the issue of SpA seeking it's seizure and destruction. I am told that someone has resolved that, but the chassis is clearly stamped with an "R" for replica. As a result, this presents the questions of what is it, and what can one do with it. Can papers be obtained for it in order to run in any sanctioned events, or is it purely just a track-day toy? I think the FIA certification would have issues. I don't know what HSR, LoM, SVRA (etc.) might have to say about it, but for the asking price (originally $1M+ in Denver), you wouldn't want to risk putting a BIG amount into it for two reasons: 1) if it's just a "toy", that's a LOT of money to throw at something that's not legitimate and 2) in the event you need to sell it, this is a car with a "story". It's always easy to get into these cars. Not as easy to get out of them.

    Some of these issues can be pre-researched and perhaps resolved prior to purchase. Others may simply be unaddressable, and any potential buyer needs to do their homework, know the caveats and concerns and understand what it is that they are getting themselves into. Other cars have been sold over the years with certain understandings that turned out not to be so. Just do your homework before purchasing.

    BTW, none of this takes away from the attractiveness or fun factor of this car. And, as stated, short of forking over a great deal more when a 312PB owner actually does part with their real car (which is rarely), you're not going to be able to replicate the experience any better. I think it's REALLY nice, and I like it, but for that money, there are other real and legitimate cars that I can think of wanting.

    CW
     
  14. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    #14 Napolis, Apr 20, 2012
    JH is a talented and nice guy but so far as I know he's not ex NART either as the seller describes.

    Whane Sparling is and he was involved in a 312PB coupe and replica but that's a totally different car.
     
  15. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran
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    #15 swift53, Apr 25, 2012
    It does have issues, but really, using a Moroso dry-sump(?) tank in this car is a bit much,
    as a scratch built 'replica' might have been more elegant. At least remove the sticker...
    Just nit-picking.

    Regards, Alberto
     
  16. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

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    #16 ferraripete, Apr 25, 2012
    lots of really great race cars use that tank...a decent speced part if you ask me.
     
  17. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran
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    #17 swift53, Apr 26, 2012
    You are absolutely right, it is a great part, I just don't find it appropriate in this car.
    For all the trouble, I would have built something more appropriate and visually pukka to the era.
    Sort of like putting a steering wheel with an airbag, on a Dino.

    Once again, only nitpicking....

    Regards, Alberto
     

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