Sorry David, I haven't been posting much on the subject, although I admit to being fairly obsessed with it. I guess the last 24 hours are the worst!
AND Im a big supporter of that cause...I love to speculate, is the only way to build AVANT GARDE knowledge...but I´m saving my energy for the moment we know something for sure, be it a FAIR or UNFAIR ruling...and I am REALLY trying to stay calm and easy until tomorrow...
With all due respect, I just really don't see your logic sometimes. Was it Ferrari or Bridgestone's fault or their doings that caused the debacle at 05' Indy? The Michellin runners had the choice of making multiple pitstops to make their tires work, but instead, they want to change the circuit in the last minute for in the name of sport?! (And, didn't Bridgestone also offer to have the teams to use their tires so they can all race?) Fact is, Michellin screwed up, they and their teams can suck it up and still participate in the race, granted they won't be competitive, but they are solely responsible for Michellin's bad judgement and screw up. By your logic, Bridgestone should have asked FIA to change all the circuit layout the night before to suit their tires in '05 then, in the name of sports too, or should Ferrari just take the '05 season off and stay home because their tires are just plain crap. Renault and McLaren really shouldn't have celebrated their wins that year either since the Bridgestones were obiviously not up to par which makes beating Ferrari and Schumacher completely meaningless as well. If the situation were reversed, will you shed a single tear for Ferrari and Minardi? Judging from your previous stand on F1 mattes, highly not I would dare say. I hate seeing the title being won this way as much as anyone else, but if everything turns out to be true, how is McLaren winning the titles by cheating any better than Ferrari winning the titles in the court room? And why shouldn't Ferrari fans be happy about the titles?! Do you think if McLaren is found quilty but FA or LH went on to win the title this year, they will have any sort of remorse about winning a tainted title with a cheating team? Yes, it is a sad day for F1, but this is not Ferrari's doing but McLaren's own fault. I don't know about you but my love of F1 does not translate to the teams going above the law to make a season exciting, in the name of the sport or not.
Changing the tires wasn't an option as they disintegrated within a few laps. It would have still be too risky. The only way to solve the race was to setup a chicane before the last turn and only give points to Bridgestone teams. By doing this, the points situation would have been the same as it was after the actual race in 05, but the fans would have seen all the cars on the track. That option was agreed to by all the teams, except Ferrari. Why Todt didn't agree with that is beyond me.
If McLaren is disqualified for bad behavior (and that's a big IF still IMO, and I'll wait for Thursday) how can you say that "F won it in the courts" -- F would have beaten every other team (fairly) competing for the WC/DC in 2007.
While the meeting is tomorrow, is it known that the verdict will be decided, and made known to the public tomorrow? As previosly asked, is there a schedule?
Yes, but - fairly beating "every other team" is still SECOND PLACE. I for one did not (do not) want to see it happen that way. However, for what it is worth, I went through a complete explanation of all this to a friend here at work who knows nothing at all about car racing...but who is a big NFL fan and a sports betting man. His comment was - you may not like it, but the F1 authority is just caught in a bind like the NFL with Michael Vick, or the NBA with the phony referee. They have to do something to maintain any credibility within their sport - doesn't matter if it ruffles some feathers. He is right - as much as I hate the idea of them tampering with the points, I know in my heart that if they do NOTHING, then that will be worse.
The way I understood it was that the change to the circuit was agreed by all teams, but nothing was said about the Michellin runners not earning any points. That was just a suggestion, but not agreed by the Michellin runners. Which IIRC, was the reason Todt rejected that purposal. But if I am wrong, I stand corrected.
Team Ferrari screwed the millions who traveled to the race or tuned in on the TV sets. Its a classic case of a few who didn't give a damn about the many. Rather be right than smart?
I´ve heard that putting a chicane would be an alteration of the circuit and therefore there was a problem with the insurance company too. Well, anyway, that was two years ago, who cares.
Actually I care because I like to know what really happened. That was not clear back then, but bit by bit some elements of the story come out. Similar thing might happen with the current espionage case. F1 can be just as fascinating as a history lesson. The more you read, the more you become able to put the puzzle pieces together of apparently strange decisions affecting the present. Point in case: I finally figured out why Mosley didn't throw the STR cars out of 06 for being customer RB cars.
Care to share your findings with the rest of us or is this something only reserved for the Rossa subscribers or something?
I have always been for fines and reimbursing the FIA and SF for their costs in this matter. Stepney (if he has any money) should be fined and go to jail if he is guilty. McL should have to start at the back of the grid for as many races as they had the information and did not disclose it. The FIA will probably feel they have to make the punishment harsh enough to discourage this behavior in the future. It is impossible for me to guess what they might do. 166 pages. Amazing.
LOL The Stoddart vs Mosley war escalated in 05 to the point that Mosley wanted to get rid of Paul. He leaned on his friend Berger to make a case with Mateschitz to buy up Minardi and make it into STR. Of the 41 offers Stoddart got, only two were valid: One from Irvine and the one from Berger. Red Bull won and soon thereafter Stoddart was gone from F1. No wonder Berger was never concerned about the FIA coming down on him hard for driving customer cars. And guess what: Mosley changed the rules to make them legal next year anyway. Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.
...I´m sorry, but with all due respect, READ before you post something like this... ...and dont come blaming Ferrari for the defective MICHELIN tire, or FIA for standing for the rules... ...THE 1 TIRE RULING WAS INTRODUCED just to stop Ferrari from winning...and it did wonders. ...we lost fair and square, we couldnt find a chassis for that tire...and yet we never skipped a race because we were EMBARRASINGLY slow, or didnt show for QUALY because we didnt had a tire for 1 HOT LAP!
Youve got that right.....by the way at indy in 05 Bridgestone was the main contingent against the chican being added. They pointed out to the FIA and all the teams that the Bridgestone that was brought to the track was developed specificly for that highspeed corner and to add the chicane would only have put the Bridgestone runners to a huge disadvantage.
Your logic escapes me... In football if one teams starting QB is injured, should the opposing team bench their top QB? Michelin brought defective equipment... the PR that turns that into ferrari's fault is astounding... Yes it was the fans who suffered, but 1 tire supplier didn't bring a tire that worked... I fail to see how that's ferrari's fault, and why rules should be changed to benifit the team that can't race a known circuit.
Agree with your analysis - but, my question is this: WHY did Mosley want to get rid of Paul? I submit that it was because he was a self-aggrandizing jerk, and because Minardi was becoming an embarrasment. Paul was constantly beating on Bernie and the boys to give him more money, and did not care who he went to in the press to complain that he was not getting a fair share.
If you give the points only to Bridgestone runners, it wouldn't have made a difference. MS could have come in 5th and still got 10 points.
+1 very true Trouble is I have a job remembering what I did an hour ago. I should write it down on here and SRT Mike will remind me ..
Apparently the two go back a long way with some personal dislikes of each other. The story I read doesn't go that far, but starts with an incident where Stoddart caused Mosley to loose face: Mosley was incognito at some GP, but Stoddart recognized the ringtone on the cell phone and blurred that out to the other team managers (remember Stoddart was representing the team managers). Later in the year Stoddart visited Mosley about the wing changes, he didn't want for his cars because he didn't have the budget for a quick change. Mosley gave him officially carte blanche but behind the scenes stalled the whole thing which led to the embarassing showdown at the Australian GP. Stoddart went to court and got his will, but then Mosley pulled his FIA strings to threaten the GP and all motorsports in Australia. That did the trick and Stoddart had to give in. Then there was USGP05 where Stoddart as the teams representative openly critiziced Mosley for his decision. Then there was even talk that Stoddart would want Mosley's job. Basically one thing leading to another with two men stubborn to the nth degree. I guess some British vs Australian feelings were in there somewhere as well.
Yes I agree but then it dosnt make much sense running a race only to know that the winner is not the winner. Americans are not stupid. Try playing a football game knowing that one team if they win will not get the points for the win. Dont you think the fans would be just as pissed? I also remember that the Michelin teams were told that they could take that corner slower if their tires were not up to it.
Depends on how you look at it. The race would be the race and you could even crown the winners etc. But the points for the championship would be a different matter. Just separate the two. As a fan I want to see cars on the track. That goal wasn't accomplished.
