Have we destroyed the 355?

that's what happens when the 348s biggest advocate / PR rep in the world goes missing for a bit!! LOL ;-)

 

I am!

 

I've never heard of insurance that will pay for any driver's event incident unless you haul it offsite and run it into something else.

 

State farm paid for my on track mishap. I disclosed everything about it and they never flinched. That was probably 10 years ago.

 

Not sure how it is over there but in the UK you can just add track insurance to your policy. You wouldn't be in trouble with the law for not being insured on the track in that case, it'd be the fact you drove to the track uninsured before hand.

To be honest it was just an example of when an insurance claim could be large, Ferrari against Ferrari. The legal implications (ban, fine, in theory imprisonment though that wouldn't happen) would be the same no matter what you hit or where if it was on a public road. The important part is that if you illegally modify your car in the UK you are not insured.

 

So this actually happened? You turn your back for 5 minutes...........

 

I disagree as usual. I have even more respect for a man who will take the ban and speak his mind. Yes he could have taken a different approach, stayed PC but that is not his style. If I fully spoke my mind I'm sure I would get a timeout too. His correct statement of the current state of affairs with legality and cali smog are well founded public knowledge but not well-known. I only own obd2 cars now and sold an awesome Nero 308 carb car because of the sheer effort it took and prayers I would have to say before a smog test. Unless you are a 19 y/o who knows a guy you are not passing smog without effort. That is a really big deal or you can't drive your car, get insurance or sell it for any decent amount of money. It has already been confirmed here that his statement helped at least one fchater And his statement here started another thread about the subject. that's good. Owners will benefit And it because of him. He is full of perels. He does not mince words nor does he speak car mechanics at the first grade level. When one knows a few things about cars and read his mechanical prose it is quite obvious he knows his stuff. So he has been silenced and fchat is a darker place without his contribution.

 

Even in cali there are too few Ferrari owners to pit us against them. The socal group is strong. 14 cars at the stooge be Que isn't bad. So the three of use quickly got a fourth it was vvassallo. He brought in professor gothspeed of 355 fame and that made 5 in the core living with 10miles of each other. The professor brought in the local 355 guys and we heckle each other but are one big happy family. Thus the local 348 brotherhood where it started could not keep that name with all the 355 guys in the group. I'm not In to politics. There was no vote. There is no group leader or structure. It just morphed. We are just a group of Ferrari owners having fun and helping each other out.

 

Cool, glad you're all getting on, why not. But the 348 Brotherhood, although started in a small garage in Cali, is really a global term, has been for years now. Every 348 owner is in the 'Brotherhood'.

Maybe it's no longer required, perhaps the 348 has been lifted out of the shadows and is now seen on equal term with cars such as the mighty 355 even by owners of that majestic model If not, 'opening' it up does one thing to the Brotherhood - it kills it. I'd 'vote' for opening it up to 355 guys, but having been back just a couple of days my gut says many 355 owners would still see a 348 as the 'cheap' cousin and many 348 owners would no longer feel like they are in a Brotherhood. Am I wrong on either of those?

I am of course taking the 348 Brotherhood as being a global connection of every 348 owner past and present, not a small group in Cali.

 

I guess the 348 brotherhood could be as you say global. That's great. And on Many levels I agree with you. Hey I was the guy recommending splitting the 348/355 forum! I think people should do what they want. In cali it appears that we are friends. Maybe you are correct. If fchat represents a global presence and based on the statements of many on this thread it appears we are not ready for a combined brotherhood.

 

I rarely post to Fchat now, but continue to read as time permits. SoCal is a unique microcosm of Ferrari ownership because so many of the owners know each other. Many of the hot debates that take place in the 348/355 thread would cool down significantly if the participants got a chance to meet each other face to face.

First, kudos to Monte for successfully selling his car. There is something about advertising a used Ferrari for sale that invites months of painful flogging from people around the world with access to a computer. In contrast, selling my used Hyundai on Craigslist literally took me 1 day and the buyer was thanking ME for selling him the car.

Second, as FBB knows, I buy microfiber cloths in bulk at Costco and I am going outside right now to wash my car using deionized holy water. There is something about a clean car that makes it faster!

 

With fbb I agree with working on your car! To all owners go get a workshop manual and start learning!! On a positive note while in Malaysia last week there top gear mag had done a ferrari special and a section was on the history of and link with ferrari road and race cars. They named the 355 as one of the greatest road cars produced out of a total of sixteen. I agree with them 150%
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

While I agree that many owners would get on better face to face than over a computer forum I would say that the only thing unique about the microcosm of Ferrari ownership in SoCal is probably that it thinks it's a unique microcosm.

What I mean is I live in a rural area, hardly high Ferrari ownership, and had no trouble inviting 40 owners I know to a small Ferrari display I'm organising. It was only 40 because the organisers limited numbers, could easily have invited more. In fact I 'cherry picked' to ensure we have at least one 308, 328, 348, 355, 360, 430, 458 etc. Only stepped outside inviting guys I know for a couple of the Supercars as an owner of an F40 and Enzo had to back out.

I think the unique thing about SoCal is that so many of them are on Fchat, not that they know each other. Be surprised if every area in the world didn't have the same microcosm

 

Agree totally with your sentiment

Strange graph though, can't quite get my head round it - maybe just me being dull. Are they saying the 550 was a greater road car than the F40? The FF is better than the F12? Am I reading it wrong? Or are the cars just scattered across the page, in which case (with due respect to owners) you've got a 456 and FF for example but no 288 GTO...... Seriously subjective stuff.

 

The line on the graph just shows the high points and low points of their racing through the years. The cars are just placed on the graph to mark their production year. Got is a bit of a tricky one probably because it was primarily built for group b but that was banned before it got a chance to compete so I suppose it was sort of stuck in the middle as not a car built solely built for road use. That's my theory.

 

Bloody spellcheck!! I meant gto!

 

Lol. Hate it too.

I was just looking at the 'greatest road cars' bit of the key and wondering why the FF is there but the 250 GTO is the only 250. And no 275s but a 456 is there. I'm just not entirely sure what they are trying to say other than here's a wiggly line to show the ups and downs of Ferrari F1 history with a smattering of cars I quite like superimposed on top. Just seems utterly random.

 

Extremely well put and spot on

 

I don't mind or anything, sometimes I find it quite amusing. There's just an interesting parallel to another thread where a chap in the States effectively says to an guy in Oz that the reason for differences in the market are because Ferraris in Oz are 'imports'.....

The event I'm doing a display for has ten 348s in as it's the 25th aniversary of the car launch that month. One is a friend of a friend as I needed a specific car to complete a lineup (an original and mint condition Rosso example of each of the 6 European 348 variants - TS,TB,GTS,GTB,Spider,GTC and hopefully an original factory Challenge if it's resto is complete in time) but the rest are all guys I know. 4 other 348 owners I know well can't make it.

I guess the point is the Ferrari community is pretty large and many of us know many other owners. While I'm sure there's a close knit group in SoCal, and that's great, please don't think that there isn't elsewhere. The only real difference is they generally aren't on Fchat

 

I appreciate the post and have owned my 1996 355 for 13 years. Great car and other than the major for age of belts have had little or no trouble with the car. There is also a broad misconception that ALL 355's have valve guide issues that need to be addressed. To my knowledge mine have never been done (13,500 miles) and don't go through any oil. I found a professionally written article on Ferrariforum.com, which indicates that 20% of 1995 year and and a small number of 97 and 98 355's had this problem. "it would be apparent almost immediately within the first 2 years of ownership" "As a result, the problem would have to have been fixed long ago". "It is highly unlikely that you would find a F355 today with valve guide problems"

 

Prior to my owning my '95 F355GTS, I owned two different '78 308GTS's. I loved the 308s, but the 355 is a vastly superior car in every way, except the price of a major service. With TR and Boxer prices finally turning the corner, I am hoping that we'll see 355 prices start rising as well? I'm completely baffled why people are paying higher $$ for a 328 (which, to me, is far less beautiful than a 308, or a 355) than a 355. F355GTS's were the rareest of the 355s and produced in numbers comparable to far other much higher valued Ferrari's. When I bought mine in 2001, I could have bought a Daytona coupe for about the same money (and was considering that possibility then). I chose the 355 for its beauty, performance, and appeal, not for its investment potential. But, I must say, now that I look back, I'm beginning to question that decision!

 

Guys, my 2 cents if I may:

I'm a Ferrari owner, although I'm not a 355 owner. I'm a newbie and I admit I have been put off by the tales I've read on the internet, about potential problems. I'd also like to mention that the 355 is, IMHO, the best post Enzo Ferrari Ferrari, and my dream Ferrari. As I'm sure you can relate to, I'm 29 and for my first Ferrari I was looking for a "safer bet" in terms of maintenance and reliability, so I could progressively learn the ropes and not jump head first into a 355 and bite more than my wealth could chew. I bought a Mondial 3.2 Cabriolet. Feel free beyong this point to take a swing at the Mondial. I've heard almost everything there is to hear regarding the Mondial by now, trust me.

I think one must make a fundamental enlightment: an unreliable car isn't necessarily a bad and/or undesirable car. I'd have a 355 over a Camry or a Prius. So, saying a 355 is a bad car because of the reliability woes it can give you is something I don't believe in. Like Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear once said: "Buying a reliable car is like going on holiday to Germany. Everything is clean, on time and efficient. But you don't go there, do you? You choose to go to France or Italy instead".

It's eye candy, and it revs all the way to 8500rpm singing a vicious tune. If I have to explain the 355 passion, it means you can't understand it.

As far as I've gathered here in Portugal talking to Ferrari experts, the 355 DOES HAVE mechanical problems that it's a question of "when" rather than "if" it will happen. However, dubious materials used on a Ferrari aren't new, nor exclusive to the 355. Afterall, the Feruccio Lamborghini vs Enzo Ferrari feud didn't start out of the blue. All problems are fixable, and worth fixing. Most huge 355 repair bills on the internet as sensationalist, like breaking news on your favorite gutter cable TV show.

Yes, the 355 has issues. Any car approaching two decades of existance will have issues, let alone an italian exotic sports car that revs all the way up to 8500rpm. It is a brilliant machine in terms of looks, sound and performance. No cronic mechanical problem can erase or disguise that.

There is however a striking resemblance between the Mondial and the 355: both take a beating among the Ferrari community, wether it is ownership based or not. They both have a rep. The 355 because it's a senseless moneypit for idiots, the Mondial because it has 4 seats and it doesn't go. Both unfair, unproven and biased, despite commendable efforts by owner to enlight critics (sensible critics that is, not bigots).

Ownership should continue to be highly shared and appreciated. No man is an island. To say that the experiences we share, positive or negative, has an influence on the market I think is blowing it out of proportion. However, saying that the sharing of our ownership doesn't influence the outcome of certain deals is also a bit innocent in my book.

Somewhere in between lies the truth regarding the 355 market.

The same with known mechanical issues: to pretend they're not there isn't a very serious what to approach the matter. The same applies to bashing the car because someone was ripped off (on purpose or accidentally) and ended up paying huge sums that are mistifying to long time owners. We are all civilized, successful and educated men to know that those are the extremes. The truth is a healthy balance between the two.

I've made some investments and I hope they mature in the range I'm expecting. I'll be off to search for a manual 355 spider.

Another thing that I find a little more troubling (although less important or not important at all to some): valuation as an investment. Ferrari made north of 11,000 units of the 355. No matter how desirable the 355 may get in the future, 11,000 units in the Ferrari world equates to what? Over a million or two of a "normal", "affordable", everyday car. It may be very difficult to overcome production numbers. Ferrari made over 6,000 Mondials, but only 810 3.2 Cabriolets. Maybe it'll be enough. If bought entirely original, mechanically sound, manual, spider and in the right color, it may be a whole different ball game. I hope it does. The 355 is a masterpiece and I say that even though I'm aware of potential important and expensive failures. I think anyone who has driven a 355 and took it to the redline couldn't care less about nickles and dimes if something breaks. And I also challenge any 355 driver to say he wasn't intoxicated with the handling and sound of it.

The 355 is *THE* x-factor car. Provides you with emotions impossible to describe. And I say again: sensationalist stories can't dent the marvellous machine it is on its own right. It's not a cheap car to own (Ferraris aren't, otherwise they wouldn't be exclusive, which in turn wouldn't make them insanely desirable), nor a cheap Ferrari to own, nor a bulletproof Ferrari. The only problem I see with buying a 355 (or any Ferrari for that matter) is if you're in love, that is: not do a PPI, don't educate yourself about costs, etc. If you are aware of what you may face and you have "salary cap" left, you'd be insane not to look at a 355 at some point.

Lastly, I'd like to congratulate everyone who has taken part in this debate. Sure, it has seen its fair share of trolling and radical points of view but, in all, it was a very interesting point worth debating "ad nauseum". I believe it does the forum proud.

Kindest regards to all,

Nuno.

 

Hi Pete, your opinion is equally valuable of course. Those folks who have no reason to pay close attention to the Socal group may not notice that you rarely see Monte, FBB, Tim, Jeff, Vince, Bruce, Ernie (when he is out here he qualifies as SoCal) Eric, Henry, me, etc etc arguing with each other on the merits or demerits of the 355. Why? Maybe because we have at least 5 different Cars & Coffee events that take place within an hour of each other on most weekends of the month, so we are likely to run into each other. Hard to bash a guy on the internet only to have to see him a few weeks later at an event. That is what was meant by my post.

 

Once again, I want to praise this entire thread. It has been one of the major factors that allowed me to go from 0 to 182mph (ownership) in about 10 days. Now I'm just trying to right all the minor things that slip past a PPI. Today was a new battery to replace the 4-5 year old lead-acid in the car. (If you're interested or thinking about it, see my post in the 360 forum.)

 

No worries Greg

Wasn't a real knock was just making a point I guess. Fchat is the largest Ferrari forum on the net and prides itself on being international, but it can be slightly US-centric at times. In answer to a thread where it was asked if the 348 was the new Mondial, when an Ausi said the 348 prices were holding up fine where he was he was told by a US member that the Australian or UK markets were totally irrelevant and that he should remember that Ferraris are 'imports' in Australia ?!?!?!? Made me smile, but didn't make him. The UK for example is now the worlds second largest Ferrari importer and per capita buys and sells far more Ferraris that in the US. Just worth remembering was all I was saying

My thought is the slightly odd microcosm at the moment is the 348/355 section of Fchat. Seriously, been away for a while, come back and everyone's *****ing at each other.

It's not hard to see why. Years ago in some people's eyes (read into that what you will) there was very much a view by some that 348 owners were the 'cheap' relatives to the 355 guys. Since the steady drop in price of the 355 in the US, some over there are reassessing that....... and some 355 owners don't like it much.

Say 348 in many quarters and they think 'last Ferrari you can really look after yourself'. Say 355 and they think 'expensive to own'. That's just a fact, that's the way the models are often seen. We can all 'soul search' for almost 800 posts about why that is the case, but it is the case.

The 348 went through a period (like the last 22 years) when it was looked down on by many within the Ferrari community and during that time the truth is there were precious few 355 owners saying that it's basically the same car as theirs without the modern stuff, give it a break. Say "I like the more old school feel of the 348, that's why I bought one." back then and you got laughed at and told you only got a 348 because you couldn't afford a 'better' car like the 355. Some (a few) may have said they quite liked a 348 but very, very few said anything about the fact that the 348 and 355 are basically the same car.

The 348's 'rep' was pulled back to a greater or lesser extent by owners who were passionate about the car refusing to back down and also by quite a few modern articles which show the car in a slightly different light to the LdM gibberish that many have regurgitated over the years (just IMO obviously). It's even been mentioned on this thread as 'evidence' of how much better the 355 is than the 348, more or less. It's nothing to do with the value for many of us but things like the landslide vote for Car of the Year in ECR a year or so ago (and there aren't nearly enough owners for it to all have been us, trust me) showed how people outside the Ferrari community see the car.

And now the 355 appears to have a minor snag with its rep due to the perceived cost of ownership. There's certainly nothing else wrong with the car. My advice would be that the 355 needs to be slightly re-packaged and portrayed as the slightly more refined, slightly more modern sister of the 348 and perfectly home-engineerable. For some that means swallowing the pride and admitting that all the "Your 348 is sooo rubbish compared to my 355......" nonsense was uncalled for as well as being utter rubbish.

Or you can leave the void and try to 'market' the 355 as a totally different car (which it isn't) and have it seen as one. You can leave the 348 to be seen as the last Ferrari a home mechanic can maintain, which has always been its strength. Your call really