Have we destroyed the 355? | FerrariChat

Have we destroyed the 355?

Discussion in '348/355' started by Monteman, Oct 24, 2013.

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  1. Monteman

    Monteman Formula 3
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    Feb 9, 2006
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    Santa Barbara, CA
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    Monte
    #1 Monteman, Oct 24, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
    As many of you know, I've been a 355 owner for many years and a fairly active member of this forum. I recently bought a CS and decided to sell the 355 but have been really disappointed in the market reaction. First, let me state that I'm not selling the 355 because it's a bad car. I love this car and have owned it longer than any other car I've ever owned. I simply have too many cars and space is tight although I just installed another lift yesterday so things are slightly better.

    I'm concerned that perhaps we are our own worst enemy and at least partly to blame for the current perception (and prices) of the 355 in the market place. Yes, there are known issues for the 355 such as headers, valve guides and the requirement to remove the engine for the belt service. I've had my car long enough to know that once the known problems are addressed they are bullet proof cars and a blast to drive. Unfortunately, the perception in the market is they are maintenance nightmares and money pits. Having witnessed this multiple times on this forum I think we need to at least take part of the blame. Every now and then you hear the good stories but far too often the exception becomes the norm and a market perception is born. I would ask a couple of things of this great group:

    1. If you've never owned a 355 and/or have never had first hand experience with a 355 then don't post like an expert. I hate to flame people but I think people need to get called out if they have no first hand basis for their "opinion". IMO, this group is the single biggest issue with the 355 perception.

    2. This forum is great for learning how to fix Ferrari's but keep the issues in perspective. Is the issue that a person is having with the car a true design problem with the car or a result of prior lack of maintenance or abuse? Could be the previous owner or shoddy shop but I find they are pretty well designed cars and very reliable IF maintained properly with quality parts. I've owned this car for many years and have NEVER spent thousands of dollars every year to maintain it....NEVER. Let's also be honest, these are soon going to be 20 year old cars, things wear out and break but it doesn't mean they are bad cars or poorly designed. But when they do break or wear out, fix them properly with good parts. If you don't know how to do it then pay a good shop to do it but don't blame the car.

    Finally, nearly every Ferrari has header and sticky interior issues, even the later models....they are one time fixes and the problems won't return. The valve guide issue is a one time fix also and, regardless of what anyone says, nearly every 355 owner I know only does the belt service every 5 years (and some longer) but I have never really met a single owner that does their belts every 3 years.

    I may well end up keeping the 355 given the current market perception since I know that it is a far better car than what the market is currently valuing it at. I'm going to try and sell it one more time but that's probably it. If it doesn't sell for a fair price then the cover comes off and I'm going to start driving it again. My only ask is be thoughtful of what we say on this forum and keep it constructive. If you don't own a 355 (or never have) then please don't speak about things you know nothing about. This can be a great forum and I already know what a great group it is but please let's keep it constructive.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Turbo Ron

    Turbo Ron Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
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    Ron Stavis
    Good post. I agree.
     
  3. Valenzo

    Valenzo F1 Veteran

    Dec 4, 2010
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    Great post, thanks for putting it into perspective. So your 355 has all the known issues taken care of and is ready for 3-5 years of trouble free driving? That should increase its selling point by at least 20% over one thats unknown. I think that should be clearly spelled out in your FS ad in the same way you did here. Good luck with the transfer to a fortunate individual.
     
  4. Sushimon355

    Sushimon355 Formula Junior

    May 27, 2009
    533
    Dallas, TX
    Full Name:
    Wade
    I'm glad someone posted this. I've been meaning to do it but plan on detailing for the group every dollar I have spent on my car since day one so people can have at least one positive experience to draw from. I've owned my car for over six years, have been through one major with a few relatively minor issues along the way but I have not had the horrible experiences you so often read about on the boards. Overall my maintenance expenses have been inline or even better than my expectations going in. Stay tuned...
     
  5. TomPDX

    TomPDX Formula Junior

    Mar 28, 2008
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    Tom
    Good points all. But remember that our economy is still recovering from a deep recession, and luxuries like an expensive "toy" car are still a few years away for many would be buyers. Couple that with the natural cycle of a typical Ferrari's value - we are probably at the lowest point now (14-18 years old) and 355 values are, or are about to rise.

    So yes, while I agree with your points and feel the same, I think we also have to recognize that the Great Recession of 2009 is when the prices really tanked. First the 355 and then the 360. Have faith, Brother! Things will get better. For the economy, and 355 values.
     
  6. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    Pete
    It's good and bad. It's good if you've always wanted one, bad if you're trying to sell one.

    I don't really care about values, but the perception that they're fragile, unreliable cars is not true in my experience.
     
  7. Monteman

    Monteman Formula 3
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    Totally agree but the problem (my opinion) is the perception the 355 has in the market. Unless people start to see the 355 for what it really is I'm afraid too many people are scared off from them. Trust me, they try to use all these horror stories to negotiate the prices down.
     
  8. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,294
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    Monte,

    Not only are you right about the perceptions of the 355 but those perceptions have polluted Ferrari world in general causing problems for all Ferraris. That is why on several posts I advocated design of "polls" to get real numbers of what is really happening to these cars. I truly believe that problems with these cars are just like root canals. 95% of the time a root canal is a pain free non-issue and 5% of the time they can be a real bugger. The problem is the 5% talk the loudest. We will never know until we get data.
     
  9. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Nov 23, 2012
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    Great post. I have a 98 w/ less than 13K miles and I'm not at all worried about valve guides and the header issue is a mild concern.

    I do think all interiors will go sticky and I did 50% of mine this year that was not already done but I did it as a precaution. Big deal, a couple of bucks and a few fun hours.

    I wanted a 355 for 13 year - yes 13 years and I'm so happy I own one - no regrets and I truly think I will have this car until the day I die!!
     
  10. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
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    Tim Dee
    I agree with you Monte 100%

    I have strayed away from posting here lately do to these reasons. I don't cross examine my Dr when he tell me I have a common cold. The pure childish behavior and lack of class has my turned off to offer any help to others except locally on a personal basis.

    Folks need to stop taking too much Viagra it's effecting your brains


    :)
     
  11. kderacing

    kderacing Karting

    Sep 18, 2013
    71
    Chicago Suburbs
    I can honestly say that this reputation almost kept me from buying the 355 I was avoiding the model initially because of what I had heard. However it didn't all come from here, in fact I had some sales people at dealerships warn me of the same things. If it weren't for one salesman giving me more of an "honest" perspective of what to expect I would've avoided the 355. Now that I have it I'm glad I didn't they are a fantastic car and I'm not saying this just because I have one but I drove the 360 back to back with the 355 exactly 1 day apart and I liked the 355 better. Of course that was influenced by the 355 being a 6 speed manual and convertible as opposed to the 360 being a coupe F1 transmission and the 355 having the Tubi exhaust. Probably more the combination of the exhaust with the top down than anything. But for me at least the 355 was more of what I expected from the "Ferrari driving experience" than the 360. Prior to these cars I had never even ridden in any Ferrari model before.

    So this perception does in fact influence buyers and I'm speaking first hand with my recent shopping experience. Again it doesn't all come from this forum though. I think what this forum can do to help is have the people with more miles speak up. Talk about how they maintain their cars and how they drive them. I'm also a firm believer that some of the problems stem from those that store their cars more than drive them. They are machines and they need to be worked to stay in shape. When they sit seals dry up, oil isn't flowing as frequently (especially with a dry sump) and steering components aren't being exercised. I could be wrong and it's early in my ownership to say, but I plan on driving mine spirited, maintaining it well, and we'll see what the results are.

    One other side note originally when I selected the 355 I viewed it as a stepping stone to the brand and was hoping to replace it with a 360 or a 430 in the future. Now that I have it I honestly think I'll wait and hopefully add the 430. Time will tell and I'm likely to eat these words since I have a bad habbit of keeping any car for over a year. If the 355 breaks that pattern it speaks very highly of the car.
     
  12. tr512

    tr512 Formula 3

    Apr 12, 2007
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    Michael
    Bought my 99355f1 with 27000 km two years ago it just had a fresh service belts/bearings/water/pump/ fab speed headers /tubi cats. my car now has 81000 km now which = 50625 miles my car never uses any oil between oil changes 10000km.
    I have spent a total of about $4000.00 in repairs driving 54000km = 33750 miles and that includes updating to a 360 f1 pump which i didn't need. I did spend about $ 15000.00 in gas but i sure had fun doing it.I'm i going to change my belts this winter NO
    .. i will change them next winter when my car has about 100,000km.
    Now the real shocker my car was a rebuild!!!!! i know most whould never buy a car that was rebuilt but i got a great deal and if it was to blow up tomorrow i could allmost part it out for what i paid for the car.
    A happy ferrari is a driven ferrari..and so is the owner.
    To be honest i believe alot of cars are over serviced and under driven .
     
  13. treedee3d

    treedee3d F1 Rookie

    Apr 1, 2011
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    I think the 355 is definetly the "last of the real Ferraris" and selling it would be a mistake.

    I can't picture anything post-355 becoming classic collectibles given that they're production cars and the numbers made are really high.

    I always figured I would "upgrade" to a 360 eventually but I have now changed my mind and plan to never sell the 355.

    I also predict that 5-10 years from now the value of the 355 will surpass the 360. I predict a major drop in value for the 360s and many of them on the market as it enters that cycle of its life.
     
  14. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
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    Apr 13, 2004
    7,113
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    I also don't think every buyer comes to Fchat and then is scared away, A lot of people don't even come to car forums because they don't even know about them.
     
  15. FX8200

    FX8200 Karting

    Apr 7, 2013
    172
    In all fairness I think the 355 are certainly not cheap cars to maintain . But at this price point I cannot think of any car new or used that can match it for presence and style. Mine costs me probably ten times more to maintain than my Nissan fairlady or Abarth 500 on a yearly basis but it's easily ten times nicer to look at. It's a fair trade off I guess.
     
  16. Quadcammer

    Quadcammer Formula Junior

    Jun 29, 2005
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    Clifton, NJ
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    Oliver
    seriously, how many of these threads do there need to be?

    the reputation the 355 has earned is not from empty chatter. It is real, and lots of owners have the high five figure bills to prove it.

    The collective market is pretty good at figuring out whats real and whats bs.
     
  17. Quadcammer

    Quadcammer Formula Junior

    Jun 29, 2005
    500
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    Oliver
    As to your comments about only people who own these cars having room to talk, well, BS.

    1. Your experience is valuable, but as you know or should know, a sample size of N=1 is not going to provide any statistically relevant information. Anecdotes are great, but in the grand scheme, provide little value unless aggregated.

    2. for every uninformed person whining about how pricey and/or unreliable these cars are, there is an owner who purposely lies about how little it costs him to repair the car. Most people want others to think they bought a good car and make wise choices and save face with "underestimates" of repair costs.

    3. I refuse to believe there are simply so many abused cars out there, especially at the mileage they have. When ferrari produces crap like the tensioner bearings that fail right outta the box, the funk oil pump chain tensioner that wears out the plastic etc, its hard to always blame the owner or lack of maintenance.

    Bottom line, any new owners need to approach 355 ownership with a healthy skepticism and a healthy wallet. If it turns out to be trouble free, then its all smiles and a nice vacation. But its better for people to go into it with eyes open than hear everything is great and then get the surprise bill.

    Seems like you're just pissed that you can't sell your car for what you think its worth.
     
  18. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    They're expensive, temperamental Italian sports cars that are over 20 years old. I think F chat had little to do with it's reputation -- good or bad.
     
  19. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    If you talk to the dealer's service department or any well experienced 355 mechanic, you get a very good picture. I would expect that many get their information this way.

    Your line here is probably what most mechanics would say if honest.
     
  20. fullmonty

    fullmonty Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2007
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    Mel
    Thanks for the great post. My 97' Spider has 64k miles, I purchased it with 60k miles. I did an immediate engine out service including new guides and other goodies. I recently redid the seat upholstery. The prior owner had sunk a lot of money into the car brakes, air cond. condenser, headers, cats and tubi exhaust, clutch etc.. over the last 2 years of ownership.

    I love this car!, the size, the balance-ease of driving, the SOUND. I have have heard from more than a few 430 owners who had previously owned a 355, that they love the 355 and miss the driving experience ( obviously I'm not talking about the torque differences). So, I am looking forward to many, many more miles of enjoyment; as with any car, do the maintenance, and remember we all have to pay to play.
     
  21. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    Nov 26, 2012
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    #21 drbob101, Oct 24, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
    Sorry Mayor but your math is off. They aren't 20 years old yet! You must be thinking of a different model Ferrari. :)
     
  22. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    1994 to late 2013? Ok, 19 years and 10 months.
     
  23. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    Peak production was probably 97-98. I don't think I have seen any posts on here from '94 owners. Mine was built in 7/97 so the 20 year old mark is 3 1/2 years and a major away.
     
  24. MisterMaranello

    MisterMaranello F1 Rookie

    Apr 5, 2011
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    Oh come on you get the point...
     
  25. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
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    Apr 13, 2004
    7,113
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    wow really?

    early 95 models would have been built in 94.
    yours isn't 20 years old yet but its close enough.

    My car was built in Nov 95 and its damn close to 20 yrs old.
     

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