Hammi's Japanese Win under Investigation.

Some good points I guess, so are we not allowed to critise any F1 driver then? Might as well close this forum down ... :yawn: ... They are all sooooo much better than us. Bollocks, they can just drive a little better than most of us, does not mean they deserve any more respect than any other person on this planet.

And by the way I do not bleed Ferrari red, don't even own one ... they are just cars, but I'm a little biased to their F1 team, but being a New Zealander pretty keen on the McLaren team also.
Pete
BTW: Even F1 cars are still cars, lets not forget that. They have not reinvented physics, just applied it at different levels. 90% of F1 journs and so called experts have not even driven a F1 either, heck we all listen to Stirling Moss with bated breath, but he hasn't driven a modern F1 car either. The cars he drove would struggle to compete with a modern Cateham nowadays ...

... oh and last I looked Webber and Vertal (spelling?) do drive F1 cars and they were not happy with LH, they might have different reasons ofcourse

 

Thanks,
Everyone is entitled to there opinion, of course, but i just get irritated at all the silly stuff, name calling, he said she said, handbags at dawn and all that.. I enjoy F1 for the technical side as much as the racing. I LOVE Ferrari, but every MS win was meaningless to me because IMHO he was neither a good sportsman or great champion. I respect the Graham Hill, Jim Clark, Bruce Mcl, Jack Brabham, Stirling Moss, Alan Jones, etc, etc mentality of hard nut's racing hard, but being gentlemen and having a beer together afterwards.
All this spying, whinging, nagging, crap is just killing it for me. I just dont what motor racing to turn into a "MTV" mentality.

 

All I can do is totally agree with you there. Unfortunately this season with all the spying, etc. has caused the handbags to be pulled out

Roll on next year.
Pete

 

Your Killing me here.
I am not trying to start (or finish) an argument here !!
F1 drivers are not just a little better than us they are Waaayyyyyy better drivers than anyone of us. Have you every been in a car with an F1/rally/DTM driver ??. (road,track or otherwise) OMG. It is like unbelievable.
Comparing drivers from different times is always difficault, without doupt. But a champion would always be a champion, in any time, Moss had to beat Fangio, Clark had to beat Moss, Senna had to beat Prost, and so on, it is about mentality as well as talent and drive
As for the Webber/ Vettal thing, doesn't one of them have a Ferrari engine ???

 

Again just making the distinction in that just because they can drive, does not mean they are better people . Lets not hero worship the whole person, just the driver.

Interesting point ...
Pete

 

you put this post up and say I am automotively challenged ??

a well setup drum braked car will stop just as effectively as a disc braked car of the same swept volume for 2 or 3 stops and then be useless due to not being able to get the heat out.

I have said repeatedly in this section many times that all the drivers in F1 are incredibly good and there is very little difference between first and last in ability but the car is the huge factor and you can only compare drivers in like cars.

What is wrong with braking while accelerating to warm brakes up ?

it was wet and LH said he was running harder compound brake pads which meant he couldn't press lightly on the pedal for fear of glazing the rotor and pads which was why he was JAMMING the back pedal

here's what Webber thought of LH's driving :

MW: I think he did a sh*t job behind the safety car. He did a sh*t job and that's it. He spoke in the drivers' briefing about how good a job he was going to do and then he did the job the opposite way, so we know for next time, it's no problem.

same here , and it's even harder for Aussies and Yanks to get into it due to the dominance of the domestic racing series





So let me know, how many F1 cars have you warmed the brakes in ?

 

First off, thanks for the link.

Next, after watching this over and over I believe both LH and Vettel were at fault. Weber; wrong place, wrong time.
LH appears to have his braking over and done with and is trying to build heat in the tires by accelerating quickly from low speed.
( pointless in the rain with the safety car on track as the heat will be gone within a minute ). He may have been just checking for traction or just screwing around. Who knows ? Point is he did it.
He did move over but came to an almost complete stop. Eveyone in the train will have to slow as well.
Weber rightfully slows off to one side.
Vettel SHOULD have seen him as the rain light was flashing on MWs car. ( I also advocate brake lights but will save that thorn for a different day ).
Racing incident. Just happens.
FIA should penalise both or forgive both.

 

Thanks Nick for finding a link..

What is a worry to me is that some guy in the crowd with a camcorder ,vid phone or whatever posted on youtube can cause quite so much fuss.

However I'am not saying this is wrong but it needs putting into some perspective. ie how hard is it to doctor video's.

And before anyone starts I,am not saying this was the case with this video...

 

Not sure how to seperate the Quotes here, i apologies for that, but here we go.
"a well setup drum braked car will stop just as effectively as a disc braked car of the same swept volume for 2 or 3 stops and then be useless due to not being able to get the heat out."
There is a little more to it than that.
"I have said repeatedly in this section many times that all the drivers in F1 are incredibly good and there is very little difference between first and last in ability but the car is the huge factor and you can only compare drivers in like cars."
I agree to a point, but I feel the greats are in a different league. I dont think we can put LH in that category yet, but he is showing the signs.
"What is wrong with braking while accelerating to warm brakes up ?"
If not done correctly the friction surfaces will "glaze" causing a loss of efficiency.
"So let me know, how many F1 cars have you warmed the brakes in "
I have been fortunate enough to have been around these cars all my life, and have worked for several gentlemen that own colections of cars that need "mechanics" to look after them, all cars need testing. But i could never get the heat paint off, I fix them not race them, but have been lucky enough to get behind the wheel of a couple.

 

Thanks for the link Chaos. I had not seen the incident yet and after watching it numerous times I can only say this:

-Lewis was looking for someone to pass him and force a penalty to one or more of the cars behind him.
-Of course the third car ran into Weber as he couldnt see anything.
-Lewis did NOT stay within 5 lengths of the pace car and anyone can see that as he almost stopped.

F1 is really getting stupid and there has not been a death for a while but with the stretching of the rules in the pits and on the track...something is going to happen soon.(look at the near misses in the pits in quali yesterday. If there is contact in the pits, there is a good chance that a car will in up into a garage causing canage). Hamilton is loosing more respect everytime he does something stupid like this and looks even worse when he tries to defend something so obviously stupid. Why do you think the car in front is called a "safety car"?

WWF1? Maybe.

 

Did anyone hear the remarks Sir Jackie Stewart made during the practice session? He made some interesting points that changed my perspective on the incident.

 

Yes, and I felt he was 100% correct. The commentators then said some interesting things, the sport really suffers because there are new stewards for each race. There needs to be a consistent groups of stewards, made up of ex F1 drivers just like Jackie. This would cut down all the BS calls and uncertainty.

 

+1

 

I know but what I stated is true

I never said anyhting about the greats other than I think Nuvolari was the best due to the fact he drove in an era when safety wasn't even a consideration and he was capable of bringing cars home to a victory no-one expected

it all depends on the pad material you're using no ??

sorry if this sounded facetious, wasn't intended that way. I'm sort of glad in a way you couldn't get the heat paint off unless you are the owner of said cars and am seriously jealous of your time behind the wheel.

Would you consider heat paint and pyrometers as minimum equipment for weekend warriors ?

 

How do you do that with the quotes?? Split it up I mean.

As for the last question, it depends on weather you are doing it for fun or are racing for championships. I have never been paid to race, and do so only for fun, therefore I set up the car or bike to where i am comfortable and can enjoy the weekend.
It is really up to the individual the amount of money/involvement you want to step up to.
But yes they are very valuble tools.

 

If you think the material you consume daily from 'respected' + 'professional' sources is 100% pure
you deserve 1kg of LH smiles and a job at BBC.

An individual is more transparent and has less resources + possibilities to alter the data.
So don't worry so much. Facts + evidence do not cloud reality, they ... as BE would say, enrich it.

The fact that some guy in the crowd with a camcorder can cause so much fuss
is a beautiful thing.

 

Ever wonder about those people who spend $2.00 apiece on those little bottles of Evian water? Try spelling Evian backwards: NAIVE One thing I'am not.

I consume what I THINK IS RIGHT so I'am glad the video was shown and the result was right.