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GTO Spyder for sale

Discussion in 'Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies' started by Tspringer, Feb 24, 2006.

  1. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
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    Sep 7, 2004
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    Re: 0460: The story used to go around (in the 50s) that Enzo didn't want to sell a 375 MM to a woman but finally agreed on condition he select the colors. He (allegedly) figured she would reject his selection and that would be the end of it. Probably apocryphal, but a cute story.
     
  2. davidgoerndt

    davidgoerndt Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2004
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    This car is profiled in Henry Rasmussen's book ("Ferrari, Salute to the Spyders"), and the article in Cavallino which used photos from the HR book. Cavallino article mentioned the story behind the car as well as the controversy regarding the restoration and display at Pebble Beach in the next issue letters to the editor.
     
  3. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    #178 Aardy, Mar 14, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  4. michael platzer

    michael platzer F1 Veteran

    Nov 12, 2003
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    Michael Platzer
    thank you - great looking car !
     
  5. GTE

    GTE F1 Veteran

    Jun 24, 2004
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    Marnix

    Yes, but you couldn´t be further away from the point of this discussion.
     
  6. frank4cars

    frank4cars F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2004
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    I thought I might just pop in here to add some different perspective on the issue. The factory never made a GTO Spyder. If a Ferrari enthusiast wanted the gorgeous shape of a GTO but in an open-top Spyder form, they would probably prefer one made by a skilled coachbuilder like Gennadi.

    They would probably also prefer that it be Ferrari-based, not a home-built chassis or some Chevy or Nissan. Closer to what Ferrari would have made if they had chosen to make one back in the day. Using a real GTO would be too expensive and would probably get somebody killed. If said person chose to have a 250 GTE used for this, it would be similar to the factory developing the original GTO for racing. Using an existing model and modifying it for a different purpose.

    The same guy who built these two (yes, there's another one out there) GTO Spyders also does the same thing for people who own modern Bentleys and Rolls-Royces and worked with Ford to develop an open-top option for Ford GT buyers who got tired of whacking heir heads on those damn doors.

    I'm not saying the factory would have chosen to tab Mark as its official Spyder coachbuilder in the day, but Ford has used him for the GTX1 and Rolls is showing new Phantoms that look suspiciously like Mark's creations. Maybe we are witnessing the birth of another Pinin Farina. Maybe time will prove this to be some of the earliest work of a great American design house. Maybe not. But his work is top-notch and this GTO is no exception.

    Here's the kicker. Gennadi has shown a mockup of a planned Enzo Spider. Would anybody offer up their Enzo for this project? How about a 360 Spider? All-Ferrari engineering and running gear with a beautiful body that approximates what a factory effort might look like. It would even be close to period.
     
  7. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
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    A couple of days ago I saw what looked like the yellow Spider shown in post 156, going the other way on the 101 freeway. Who was that masked man? Was I dreaming? Am I losing it (a strong possibility!)?
     
  8. Michael RPM

    Michael RPM Formula Junior
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    Apr 10, 2002
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    The red ZZ top car and the yellow car in the midwest were in fact both done by Mark. I've seen the yellow car in person and the work was done very well.
     
  9. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

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  10. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
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  11. redcar1

    redcar1 Formula Junior
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    It did sell, see http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111604 for some nice pics, and more melodrama.

    Within all this nonsense is some brilliant insight along with typical internet inanity.

    The car is absolutely fabulous. PM me if you want more details.

    Mark
     
  12. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
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    Feb 24, 2002
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    WOW Ed Niles!

    It is an honor to share the same page as you! When I was a fledgling Ferrari guy you gave me some good advice!

    He was also the owner of the most beautiful Ferrari ever the Nembo spyder! I love that car!

    Rob Garven
    Lowly GT4 owner
     
  13. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

    Feb 15, 2008
    2,285
    One time at least 20 years ago Gary Bobileff had a used Ferrari for sale, this is before the big run up in prices.
    I go down to San Diego and the thing steered like a truck, so I passed. I think it was a 400 Superamerica in a sort of light green. But when I got to checking the chassis number I find that the same chassis number was attribted to two other Pininfarina prototypes and then I conclude that the car was a "factory mule" that different body designs were tried out on, so I guess Massini would
    '
    1.)rule one body eligible for Pebble Beach class concours and no other

    2.)require the owner to have the other two bodies fully restored, standiing by as the car was on display and every few hours have one body taken off and another body installed.
    '
    I think the fact that the chassis is intact makes the body on the car more or less irrelevant, a passing fancy in essence, like clothes on a beautiful woman.
    As a Ferrari fan I would like to see the custom bodies on display as well as the original bodies. For instance I would go a long way to see a Nembo Spyder on display


    See http://www.**************/cars/1075.html

    but not even cross the street to see a 250GTE, which I think has among PF's most boring body styles. Maybe for Massini, it's all about originality...but for me it's all about entertainment in metal. As long as the chassis wasn't cut up (engine moved etc.) I don't mind.

    And as far as Massini saying this and that Ferrari couldn't be shown at Pebble because it was customized, where does he put cars like Garrison's TdF with the big stainless steel tailfins? Someone customized it for American tastes (tailfins being all the rage back then) but does he allow that one in because it was customized way back then but he wouldn't allow the same car if it was customzed that way in the last 2-3 years?

    And if we don't allow the occasional rebody, I guess Pebble can ban all the Duesenbergs that had their ugly sedan bodies taken off and were rebodied as sexier open cars. They allow rebodied cars in quite a few categories
     
  14. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    #189 El Wayne, Oct 18, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2009
    I'm not going to attempt to respond to any of your questions (they all seem to be directed at Marcel, anyway). I just want to clarify a couple of points:

    1. The car that you drove was 400 Superamerica s/n 2207 SA, that was bodied and shown by Pininfarina in three different configurations - as Superfast II, Superfast III and Superfast IV.


    2. "Garrison's TdF" that you refer to:

    a. Is actually 410 Superamerica s/n 0671SA.

    b. Was originally bodied by Scaglietti with the tail fins - not "customized back in the day."

    c. Was originally delivered to a prominent Italian in Genoa - so not, "customized for American tastes."

    d. Had its original Scaglietti body (with tail fins) destroyed (tossed into a lake) and now wears an Italian-built body that Greg Garrison commissioned. This body is supposed to replicate the original, though many variances can be readily identified.

    e. This car has been shown at Pebble Beach twice (winning 1st in Class once), despite the fact that it now wears a body created in the 1980s.
     
  15. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    :)
     
  16. Julio Batista

    Julio Batista Formula 3

    Dec 22, 2005
    2,397
    I invite the owner of the "Ferrari GTO spyder" (or was it spider?) to come visit me at my Italian country house. Seriously, you are more than welcome... Just call in advance so I can make the necessary "arrangements". I await your PM.
     
  17. Bradley

    Bradley F1 Rookie

    Nov 23, 2006
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    I'd rather have an entirely genuine 308GTB than any replica, re-body, or re-creation.

    Oh, wait. I do.
     
  18. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    Also, why revive a three year old thread when you could have just started a new one?
     
  19. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

    Feb 15, 2008
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    #194 bitzman, Oct 18, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2009
    When Dave Robertson used to hold these car events at Los Alamitos (a racetrack in Long Beach area) I saw a Ferrari there, red, of course, coupe that was a fastback, something like a 250GTO. The owner said it was a "GTO underneath." It had single round taillights but not the three half circle air intakes in the nose. This was about 25 years ago. It also had chrome bumperettes (half bumpers) with the license plate area free of bumpers. I am wondering if this is some valuable Ferrari today or just one of those customs that makes Massini's blood temperature elevate.

    It might have been this car though the bumpers are different than I remember them.
    http://www.barchetta.cc/english/All.Ferraris/Detail/1717GT.250GT.Coupe.htm






    1717GT 60
    250 GT PF Coupe, LHD
    Date Result Event Driver # Reference
    60 - Garage Montchoisy, Geneva, CH
    .. - crashed
    65 - chassis shortened by Vaccari and rebodied by Piero Drogo's Carrozzeria Sportscars
    73 - Pierre de Siebenthal, CH
    .. - front end modified to like a GTO
    85/mar - displayed at the Geneva Motor Show
    85/jun - seen at Mont Ventoux Historic hillclimb
    .. - Caliceti, I
    87/oct Ferrari 40th anniversary, Imola Caliceti #177 "VD 16343"
    91 - Jose Segimon, Madrid, E PH102 p14
    00/may - offered by DK Engineering, Watford, UK - red
    00/jul/22 - S - Coys Silverstone auction - PDS 191,738 incl. comm.
    00/jul/22 - David Morrison, UK "FAS 881"
    01 - restored by DK Engineering - silver
    01/jun/21 Kinnerton Test Day, Rockingham David Clark
    01/sep Goodwood Revival Meeting David Clark/ Stefan Johansson #16
    03 - offered by Taylor & Crawley, UK - silver with blue stripe
    0. - Rudolfo Junco de la Vega, Monterrey, Nuevo
    Leon, MEX
    04/aug/14-15 Monterey Historic Races, Laguna Seca Rudolfo Junco

    Also there was a repair shop on Fairfax that had a grey primer Ferrari with a chopped (lower than normal) roof and I could never get close (German shepherd doing his job) but I think years later I concluded it was either a rebodied GTO or a swb comp car rebodied. I thought it might be the ex-Norinder Ferrari

    I found another rebody today on the net http://www.**************/cars/4319.html
    but I can't see the rear view to see if it matches my memory. If the car shown on thies website really was a 250GTO underneath, why did the ex-Norinder car sell for so little when by 2006 GTOs were already worth millions?
     
  20. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie
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    Aug 13, 2002
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    you are indeed a gracious host, Sr. Batista!!

    :)
     
  21. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

    Feb 15, 2008
    2,285
    when I went to my father's "barn" house in Switzerland, I noticed it looks like it's 100 years old.
    And it is, most likely. Then I found out that the occupants are only allowed to change it if the change is entirely in character with the original design. I think this is to keep up the tourist trade--what tourist would want to drive through the Bernese Oberland if the fabled "barn houses" had all been redesigned in more recent times to look like German castles, or replicas of Frank Lloyd Wright's work and God knows what else. So growing up in a country like that, Massini has been conditioned to think originality is next to Godliness and whosoever changes a design from the thoughts of the original designer is committing a crime against historical correctness. He/she should be punished.

    Which I completely understand.

    But , that being said, we Americans are not nearly so reverent toward history, and the day that George and Sam Barris first lit up their acetylene torch and cut the roof off the Hirohata Merc was the first step toward the freedom for Americans to make whatever the hell we want if it pleases us.....


    I welcome both points of view...makes living more interesting...
     
  22. Phantom 250

    Phantom 250 Rookie

    Jul 30, 2009
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    Roger
    I have gotten some grief from some here over owning a "replica". Well not truly a replica, it is a Phantom as therer never was a Spyder version of a 250 GTO. I can't for a minute imagine cutting up a original regardless of it condition, (if I could afford it) to make a custom. Those that are elitist purists will be happy to know that no original Ferrari was harmed in the production of my car. It is a Datsun powered by a stout small block Chevy. I purchased it complete after somone had spent countless hours constructing it, for far less thanwhat it would have cost me to purchase the parts. It is fast, fun and a blast to drive and a years worth of full replacement insurnace costs me less than it costs some of you for a couple of weeks worth of gas. Not everyone can either afford or have access to an original, be it a Ferrari, Shelby, Bateman or Group of Seven painting, that is why there are prints. Imitation is the sincerest form of flatery. I know this is an old post but I am new here and wanted to add my$.02 for what its worth.
     
  23. Bradley

    Bradley F1 Rookie

    Nov 23, 2006
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    Hey, Phantom 250! Thanks for your post.

    It takes some guts to post here after what some people have said.

    Thank you for saying you could not imagine cutting up an actual Ferrari to make a replica of another Ferrari. You've certainly scored some points there!

    I can respect your car for what it is: A Datsun, with meticulous hours put into building it, and a powerful American engine. I definitely respect the care, the attention to detail, the hard work, and the passion for an automobile that is uniquely yours. (And the bottom line is: That's what this board - and Ferrari ownership - is all about, isn't it?)

    My only question is whether your car has any Ferrari badges on it.

    Without the badges, it is essentially an artist's conception of what a car Ferrari never made COULD have looked like. The shared design elements and visual similarities are a tribute to Ferrari. As I said, I can respect that for what it is, and offer my sincere admiration of the effort the builder put into it.

    With Ferrari badges attached, however, I have a problem - and it's an obvious one. Now the car is attempting to pass itself off as something it isn't. I'm not a haughty purist, but no Datsun, no matter how much it might "resemble" a Ferrari, should ever wear the Prancing Horse badge. Leave on the Datsun emblems since that's what you started with, badge it as a Chevrolet because that's what makes it move, put your own name or the name of the "builder" on it, or leave it entirely blank.

    It's a way cool car. It's not a Ferrari.
     
  24. Lowell

    Lowell Formula Junior
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    Apr 17, 2005
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    Ah, I came late to this discussion, but just to throw more gasoline on the fire:

    0286 AM did not originally have the headrest/stabilizing fin that it now has.

    A choice was made to restore the car to the Carrera Panamericana configuration.
    not the original configuration as it came from the factory.


    "0286 AM: Yes, restored BUT: Super spectacular race car with great names attached to it: Phil Hill, Richie Ginther, Lou Brero etc. Look at all the little details such as the stabilizing fin, the headrest or the air intakes, not to forget the three oval portholes, the outboard headlights and the triangular cut away in the rear fenders. Placed 2nd in the Carrera Panamericana Mexico 1954. Winner of the Pebble Beach Cup 1997. Oh yeah, and Alberto Ascari raced it too. What else can you ask for?"
     
  25. shaun lamont

    shaun lamont Rookie

    Feb 10, 2019
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    shaun lamont
    I agree....what is the difference between some apparently "famous" name, and someone who does it today with great skills. Take an old car and make it live another 50 year with modern running gear and safety aids is only common sense.
     

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