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GTO Spyder for sale

Discussion in 'Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies' started by Tspringer, Feb 24, 2006.

  1. GTE

    GTE F1 Veteran

    Jun 24, 2004
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    Marnix
    Disagree on that to begin with. The Mona Lisa is not just a painting. The Saint Peter is not just a church. If anything, vintage Ferrari´s are art, dressed up as cars.
     
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  3. Helmut

    Helmut Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2004
    635
    Lets assume for a moment that Ferrari still owns the molds for all the cars it ever built and now remakes the most valuable Ferraris just for ****s and giggles, how much would those cars be worth?
    I think that the argument that a car is just a car unlike the Mona Lisa or other works of art is that any Ferrari ever built could potentially be made again even if it has to be done by Ferrari. Theoretically that is by far more in the range of the possible than making another Mona Lisa, which in turn brings the value of any ferrari down as it is nothing but a car in the end.
    A Piece of metal can most certainly be bent exactly like another one but 2 brushstrokes may possibly never be identical.
    One also mustn't forget that Ferraris are cars that were put together in a rather crude manner which should make it even easier to reproduce them absolutely identical to the original.

    Disclaimer: (before the rotten tomatoes come my way) I understand that this is just my opinion on the matter and most certainly not my final one.

    Helmut
     
  4. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
    15,984
    May I suggest to read the 4th and 5th line of post #106.
    Thank you.
    Marcel Massini
     
  5. GTE

    GTE F1 Veteran

    Jun 24, 2004
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    Marnix
    First of all, thats a matter of productionnumbers. I would never value a 360 Modena the same as a 250 GTO, simply because the latter is far more rare (well, a 360 isn´t rare to begin with).

    Secondly, there is the question of (racing)history, and that´s what gives the car (in terms of racingsuccess, famous owners, that kinda thing) it´s identity which sets it apart from anything else, which is illustrated in it´s value.

    In that sense, a GTO with a certain history, is every bit as special as the Mona Lisa. There will never be anything exactly like it. Having said that, the Mona Lisa is still far more valuable than any GTO you could think of.
     
  6. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

    Apr 28, 2004
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    I would want SCUDERIA Ferrari cars first

    1) Alfa Tipo 412 sports
    2) Alfa 8c2900B MM
    3) Alfa 8c2900B Le Mans Coupe
    4) Alfa Bimotore
    5) Alfa Tipo B (P3)
    6) Alfa 8c2300 short chassis
    7) Alfa 8c Monza
    8) Any of the first Ferraris (Tipo 125, 159 or 166)
    9) The Ferrari "bumblebee", currently for sale in England at Fisken's
    10) Any early 410 Superamerica
     
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  8. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
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    #9: Incorrect motor, restamped........
    Marcel Massini
     
  9. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    #132 Napolis, Mar 7, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    0848 is a 412 P originally raced by Swiss Scuderia Filipinetti, the roof is painted white for heat protection in the Targa Florio. The car has never been heavily damaged and is extremely genuine. It was for years in the Bardinon collection and now sits in a Swiss collection since June 1991. I very much like the design.

    As with many race cars 0848, if Barchetta is to be believed, took a hit at one time. Is this correct or do they have the wrong car?
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  10. nct

    nct Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
    64
    Guangzhou, China
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    Neil
    GTE, yes maybe that statement was a little harsh, but I do not think the GTE can be compared with the Mona Lisa. Yes ferraris are somewhat more special than everyday cars, hence no Toyotachat, but this GTE is not unique. If someone still wishes to see a orginal example they can, and I hope this will always be the case. If you are going to compare something to the Mona Lisa, compare THIS 'GTO'. They are both unique pieces of art. I take my hat off to the person with the vision (and wallet) to do such a conversion, and the same goes to Jim with his own project.
     
  11. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    Marcel:

    Thanks for that; but I would still take it.

    Just switch #9 and #10

    :) :) :)

    Stu
     
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  13. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
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    Jim:
    Yes, you are correct. 0848 took a hit at Le Mans 1966, when in P3 configuration. Fall 1966 the factory upgraded it into a 412 P.
    Marcel Massini
     
  14. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran

    May 14, 2002
    6,929
    Helmut makes a good point that I've often wondered about. Let's say that Ferrari decides that they need to make more money and licenses the rights to the design of the Ferrari GTO to General Motors and GM starts cranking them out of Detroit by the tens of thousands, all under the approval of Ferrari and with the prancing horse right on the front!!!!! They start selling like hot cakes and every 20 year old hot rodder with a rich daddy is cruising the drive-ins with his new millenium GTO. They become as common as 1982 Camaros. How long would it be before the snobby upper crust divested themselves of the cars because they had become.......uh,........common? "How horrible Jeeves! Those commoners own a car just like ours. We must get rid of it. Pass the Grey Poupon!"
     
  15. davidgoerndt

    davidgoerndt Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2004
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    Interesting idea, however, the originals GTO's would not suffer much since they would still be the originals with their individual race histories. Besides, if GM or Ford or Chrysler got the designs and started to produce GTO's by the thousands, how long do you think it would take before they start messing with the shape? Pretty soon we would have a GTO SUV that mom could take shopping.
     
  16. GTE

    GTE F1 Veteran

    Jun 24, 2004
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    Marnix
    The value of the Mona Lisa isn't hurt by re-productions, nor will GTO's with genuine racinghistory be hurt by GTO's that would be put brandnew on the market today.
     
  17. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Agreed. Just interesting in the context of replicas where one of the main argument against them is "them diluting the originals". Nobody seems to be bothered by Ford GTs, but everybody seems to be outraged by Superformance Cobras.
     
  18. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran

    May 14, 2002
    6,929
    I think that it's a snobby "good ole boys club" syndrome. When everybody's got one, it's just not cool anymore. If you have a penguin on your golf shirt, you're cool. If you have a woodpecker on your golf shirt, "please exit immediately!"
     
  19. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Which is funny in the case of the Ford GTs: Since when stands the blue oval for anything remotely prestigious?

    I guess it also depends on one's perspective: Wasn't there an ultra rare woodpecker sighting in the swamps in the South that caused a big stir amongst the bird watchers? Whereas penguins come by the dozens, or hundreds or thousands even. :)
     
  20. bill365

    bill365 F1 Rookie

    Nov 3, 2003
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    There IMO, has never been much in the "blue oval" that infers prestige. They have produced powerful motors, however. The GT's and the Cobras, were of course powered by Ford but built in England by others.
    Yes, the Ivory Billed Woodpecker, which has been supposedly extinct for many years, it's cousin the Pilleated Woodpecker is also a rare sight. Both of them are quite large, when pecking on a tree it sound like someone hammering a 16 penny nail into oak, loud, slow and heavy.

    How's that for divergent?
     
  21. redcar1

    redcar1 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    625
    austin, tx
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    Mark
    It is interesting that nobody is bothered by Ford making new GT’s. To our little clique of "car guys" the new GT is clearly not a LeMans winning car from 1966, but to the average guy on the street it appears to be a "real GT40". Why are some here so concerned that the average guy on the street is going to be unduly impressed with someone else’s car? Who cares?

    I’m not sure there really is any good argument against replicas, unless they’re flagrantly misrepresented for commercial gain. I have a replica GT40 and a replica Cobra. Neither has ever been represented as being an original 1965 car. Anyone with a real interest in either would certainly know that they are modern replicas. Could a casual observer assume them to be old? Probably, but what difference does it make? Believe it or not, most people might be curious, but they don’t really care that much.

    I also have a Porsche GT3. I had back seats installed so I could take my kids in the car. Now, Porschephiles know that GT3s don’t have back seats. The interesting thing is when the Poser-Police see the back seats and whisper that the car is not a REAL GT3 and that the badges and aero must have been added to a common 911. Well, even if it was aftermarket, why get yourself all worked up? If someone owns a car and wants to dress it up, or dress it down, its nobody’s business but the owner's.

    All this drama has me more interested than ever in a GTO replica. Personally, I think the spyder is awkward looking, but that’s the beauty of Liberty, I’m not going to buy it. I suggest you only buy the spyder if you want to. I would be very interested in a non-spyder replica, anyone know where one is available?

    Mark
     
  22. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #144 Napolis, Mar 7, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    "There IMO, has never been much in the "blue oval" that infers prestige. They have produced powerful motors, however. The GT's and the Cobras, were of course powered by Ford but built in England by others."

    Bill, as the chassis plate in this one clearly states this one was made by the Ford Motor Co. in Dearborn Mich. When the 24were over the nearest Ferrari was 135 miles behind her sister, the Big Red One sitting in the Henry Ford museum. This one came in 4th even though she spent 40 minutes in the pits having her tail put back on which had blown off when someone forgot to secure it. The Big Red One is missing her chassis plate, but trust me she too was built across the street from where she now sits.

    If you look closely, behind my elbow you can see the dent Bruce McLaren's helmet made when he threw it down upon returning to the pits with the retrieved tail.
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  23. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    A historic Le Mans racecar in the streets of NY. It's just too much!
    :) :) :)
     
  24. bill365

    bill365 F1 Rookie

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    Jim,
    It was not meant to offend in any way, but I was under the impression that the GT's chassis/bodies were all built in England, but upon checking yes the Mk IV cars were built in the U.S., Sorry.

    Bill
     
  25. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    Not offended at all but merely pointing out Ford has had a long and great motorsports history that goes back a 100 years. Old Henry got the money to start Ford by building and driving a car to victory. Over the years they've won a race or two.

    Best
     
  26. Zertec

    Zertec Formula 3

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  27. bill365

    bill365 F1 Rookie

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    I do know that Ford has been involved in racing for a long time, and has had a great number of successful campaigns.

    The prestige that I referred to was, that across the whole of their product offerings "blue oval" does not generally, for me, carry the prestige of say, winged victory, cav rampante, the winged B, etc.

    In the early years of motoring, the only to make a name for an upstart auto manufacturer, was to drive across expansive and rough continent, drive off a cliff (deonstrating safety - Tucker, I believe), set a speed record on the beach at Daytona, or win a race of some kind. And Ford was no stranger to this activity, win on Sunday, sell on Monday.

    Probably Ford's most consistant area of involvement in competition, over many years, has been the "stock cars", which really doesn't do anything for me, but I did love watching the Boss 302s trading paint with Penske/Sunoco Camaros and the like, in the original TransAm series.

    I also have a love and respect for the GTs, beautiful and fast. The definition of desirable, for me.

    Regards,
    Bill
     
  28. Bill Sawyer

    Bill Sawyer Formula 3

    Feb 26, 2002
    2,108
    Georgia
    "...as the chassis plate in this one clearly states this one was made by the Ford Motor Co. in Dearborn Mich."

    Actually, it was built at Kar Kraft, a subcontractor to Ford. I'm not trying to muddy the waters, or denigrate your Mk IV in any way. I'm just pointing out that Ford used subcontractors just as Ferrari did, and some subcontractors are more equal than others. Since Jim's car was commissioned by Ford it is a Ford, period, whether it was built at the Rouge Plant or not.

    BTW, I lived within a mile of Kar Kraft at the time.

    Bill Sawyer
     

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