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GT4

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by 444sp, Feb 8, 2017.

  1. 444sp

    444sp Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2016
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    I am observing that the different series GT4 of the whole world are taking a great boom with the arrival of the new models.
    Mc Laren, Aston Martin, Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Ford, Chevrolet, Nissan, Ginetta, KTM, Sin, Panoz, Maserati have or will have GT4 Cars.
    The costs are many lower than the GT3.
    Tobias Moers AMG Chairman said: “I think GT4 will be the new GT3.”

    I would like to see Ferrari in this category, I know that the car of the Group here is the Maserati GT4, but Ferrari is different for me.
    The Ferrari GT4 could be the California, this is a render:
    Ferrari California GT Race Car Rendered - Diseno-art
    But I guess it should be easier to adapt the 488 Challenge to GT4 rules.
     
  2. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
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  3. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    I don't know in the US, but in Europe at least, the trend is that national championships in various countries will be run under GT4 rules, but that international series like Blancpain series, Open GT and International GT will keep GT3.

    They may introduce a price limit in future, so I don't know if a Ferrari GT4 would be feasible.
     
  4. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Alfa 4C would make a great GT4 car...
     
  5. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    A bit underpowered, no ?
     
  6. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Six Time F1 World Champ
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    BoP would straighten that out.
     
  7. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    What about SIN cars?
     
  8. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    BoP can level the differences, but up to a point.

    The Alfa 4C has only a 1.7L engine. How can you equalise that with cars that have engines 3 or 4 times that size, and the same about power?

    Will they make the Corvette or the Aston run on 6 cylinder only? How much turbo boost can you put on the little Alfa engine before it blows up?
     
  9. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Six Time F1 World Champ
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    if you can BoP a Bentley Continental to be competitive with a McLaren, you can do anything ;)

    or, Alfa builds a 4C GT4 with a bigger engine/lighter weight/better aero as a homologation special. that's effectively what the Cayman GT4 is.
     
  10. Devilsolsi

    Devilsolsi F1 Veteran
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    The Bentley is my favorite just for the absurdity of it.
     
  11. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Has Bentley built a GT4?

    For be competitive in GT3, the Bentley has shed a lot of weight, used much carbon fibre, chosen the V8 engine instead of the W12, moved it back in the chassis, lowered the suspension, etc...
    The Bentley GT3 isn't cheap, it's a specially built car. I don't think Bentley could make a cheaper and simpler version to be in GT4, and it wouldn't be in the spirit of the category, IMO.

    For the McLaren 540 it's easy; it's immediately in the ball-park for GT4, weight and power wise, and it cost less than £200,000, which is the target for GT4.

    If Alfa has to start building a special version of the 4C to be competitive, costs will go up, etc...

    The Cayman is almost ideal for the GT4 category, and I am sure Porsche didn't have much to do to fit the rules there.

    GT4 is supposed to be low-cost GT3, with minimum engineering and a price ceiling too.
    Let's see if the series organisers will stick to the £200,000 price limit, or if they will allow some cars to go beyond that
     
  12. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    What's absurd about it?

    It's a big front engine coupe with a large frontal area, for sure, but they have been allowed to re-engineer the chassis and use much carbon fibre for the chassis and the body, to bring it down to other GT3 (almost).
    A costly exercise, certainly, but probably the idea of bringing a luxury firm in GT was irresistible.
    It has been quite competitive too ...
     
  13. Devilsolsi

    Devilsolsi F1 Veteran
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    I say that purely from the optics of it. It is a big brash luxury GT going head to head with pure sports cars from Ferrari, McLaren, Lambo, etc.. I applaud them for taking it racing. I think it is great.

    I love the variety in the GT3 series. I hope the manufacturer involvement continues.
     
  14. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    GT3 is my favourite series now.

    Like you say, so much diversity.
     
  15. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Six Time F1 World Champ
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    I was referencing GT3 (Bentley and 650s).

    if you can BoP a 5000 pound, 520 horsepower car to match performance of a 3200 pound, 640 horsepower car, getting a 4C (2465 pounds, 230 horsepower) to similar performance as a Cayman GT4 (3000 pounds, 380 horsepower) shouldn't be impossible. the power/weights of the 4C and Cayman are closer in the production cars you're starting with, for example.
     
  16. 444sp

    444sp Formula Junior

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  17. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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    It would be great to see the 4C in GT4, but Alfa I don't think will do it. Maybe a private effort will happen.

    I would also like to see the 4C upgraded to the Giulia's 4C hybrid motor, wich will be available on the Giulia (USA Veloce) in hybrid form later this year(350hp stock but extra weight due to the electric motor and extra battery). The 4C stock gearbox cannot handle the extra HP in its present form so that will I think be the deal breaker. We will see.
     
  18. 444sp

    444sp Formula Junior

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  19. Merak1974

    Merak1974 Formula 3

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    The Maserati MC GT4 has been around since 2010 and done pretty well, especially in Europe. A pity that few teams raced the car when it was introduced, leaving the company to focus on its own one-make Trofeo series for several years.
     
  20. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3
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    Chevrolet Camaro GT4 was just announced.
     
  21. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

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  22. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
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    The Camaro GT4 was announced a few weeks ago. The Audi R8 GT4 was announced today! ;)
     
  23. tervuren

    tervuren Formula 3

    Apr 30, 2006
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    I'd like to see GT4 get featured without faster cars on the track sometime.

    Any races where an event is scheduled like this planned?

    Bathurst 12hr it was really nice not having GTLM or Prototypes, and getting to focus on GT3. But GT4 still missed out on getting shown much more than the race leader.
     
  24. Ky1e

    Ky1e Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2011
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    I own two McLaren GT4's and race them in IMSA Conti. Here's my take:
    overall GT4 is a good thing-- it is increasing participation, lowering costs, and bringing in many new manufacturers. It is a winning formula.

    There are many downsides however. Downside is they definitely feel like street cars, they are not as visceral and they are not as robust as a dedicated race car. My purpose built Cayman race cars are loud, raw, fun, and durable whereas my GT4's are quiet, have power windows, a/c, traction control and feel just like a street car.

    The purpose built race cars like my Cayman generally just needed brakes, tires and occasionally some other items. On the GT4 something fails almost every outing (good thing we have 2). Little items-- accelerator pedal, o2 sensor, oil cap, headers crack, yaw sensor, plastic fuel pick-up, engine mounts, plastic ties and clips. I've brought 2 cars to every test day and 80% of the time we are only able to run 1 car. This is more a factor of having car #1 off the McLaren line and it being the first car of a first model run. I can get over the development, but I do wish they made them more viceral. Let GT4 open the exhaust up to give the cars some noise!
     
  25. Entropy

    Entropy Formula 3
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    Jul 10, 2008
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    you definitely volunteered for "development duty" by going McLaren in a net-new spec, I've driven one of them and they are, to me, more refined versions of "old spec" GS and ST.

    what you're describing as teething pains are (unfortunately) right on schedule for a new car, whether it's a GT3 NSX or old(er) 911 GTD America spec. (though Porsche and Michelotto do a LOT more development and know how to do it, even the Ganassi Ford program had teething issues after megabucks development budgets and testing).

    The reality of GT4 (and, in the near term, TCR) is to keep the grids full, the series need to get manufacturers to play, and for them to play, they need customers who are willing to buy/run the cars, or at least find teams who can keep pay drivers engaged. The best/cheapest way to do that is to make the cars, well, more like street cars. Running GS competitively became very expensive in the past few years, and grid counts plummeted (though are recovering nicely this season)

    Hell, even GT3 spec cars are down on power compared to their street car baselines. Plus, it's hard to make modern turbo engines loud; noise is wasted horsepower to an engineer trying to stay within BoP, emissions, fuel and cost limits.

    Good for you jumping in, and good for McLaren for having more race cars running in North America (IMSA and PWC) than Ferrari within just a few short years.
     

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