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Gearbox sump plug debris

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by belfry, Mar 15, 2019.

  1. belfry

    belfry Karting

    May 14, 2015
    146
    My wife noticed a slight grumble/ whine from the gearbox on my Mondial t. I changed the fluid this morning and there wasn’t much on the sump plug except the normal small flakes. I test drove the car just now and there was a distinct whine (sounded a little like an old-fashioned supercharger), so I drained the new redline fluid and found all this debris on my sump plug.

    Is there a chance that I might have saved it in time??
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  2. alexion

    alexion Formula Junior
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    May 20, 2013
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    I hope so! Do not drive it any further. What year and mileage is your T?

    There are some similar threads on this topic in the 348 section if memory serves me correctly.
     
  3. alexion

    alexion Formula Junior
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    One notable person that I recall experienced a problem with their 348 gearbox is Daniel of Ricambi. He might be the right person to ask/discuss with and point you in the right direction for parts.
     
  4. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2016
    2,606
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    It needs to come out before you do more damage, the big bits sounds alarm bells with me
     
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  5. belfry

    belfry Karting

    May 14, 2015
    146
    The car is 66,000 miles.

    There is a 348 gearbox thread that talks about "finger nail clippings" size fragments, which perfectly describes the fragments on my sump plug magnet. I think they pointed to the oil pump bearing.

    I have strained the oil that I drained from the gearbox and there are no more fragments in there.
     
  6. srephwed

    srephwed F1 Rookie
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    The long slivers look like gear teeth. Push, pull or drag it for repairs. do not drive anymore. When you have two gears and something tries to go between them it is like trying to compress a liquid. Something has to give.
     
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  7. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    Needs an internal visual inspection, asap. Don't drive it.
     
  8. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
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    Please let us know what happened and possible cause.
     
  9. JimboMondial

    JimboMondial Karting

    Dec 26, 2005
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    Looks like a bits from a pin bearing.

    Jim

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  10. jknight

    jknight F1 Veteran

    Oct 30, 2004
    7,800
    Central Texas
    #10 jknight, Mar 17, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
    This sounds identical to the situation I had with my T coupe several years ago. The transmission was steadily "eating" itself.due to what turned out to be an old unresolved manufacturing defect. The end result was a transmission rebuild. Expensive but necessary and it completely resolved the problem. Do not drive it and have a competent mechanic take a good look at it. Good luck.
     
  11. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
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    How much did it cost Jknight and who did it?
     
  12. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
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    It needs a rebuilt, like I had to do for my 100,000km Mondial T too. The internal bearings are worn, give a whining sound and have to be replaced. Prepare for a big budget job, especially finding the bearings is very difficult and will be expensive.
     
  13. jknight

    jknight F1 Veteran

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  14. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
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    Thanks J. I have dealt a little with Norwood a little and got a good vibe from them.
     
  15. jknight

    jknight F1 Veteran

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    Best of luck.
     
  16. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
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    I don’t need any work done. I’m just getting a feel for a “what if” situation.
     
  17. 350HPMondial

    350HPMondial F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2002
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    Long pieces, if made of Aluminum,,, are Aluminum threads.
    The other contaminants are iron filings. From.......?
    Could be normal wear ......?

    Good luck.
    Eduardo
     
  18. alexion

    alexion Formula Junior
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    May 20, 2013
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    Any updates on this?


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  19. belfry

    belfry Karting

    May 14, 2015
    146
    The back of the gearbox was taken off today and the input shaft ring nut had become loose and is causing the whine. It will be a day or two until we know if this has caused any damage internally. We will also inspect the clutch for wear.
     
  20. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
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    Hopefully they can tighten it back up and it will be good.


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  21. belfry

    belfry Karting

    May 14, 2015
    146
    When we opened the gearbox we found that the play in the shaft was not coming from a loose ringnut, but instead a clip has come off the shaft. There is no sign of internal damage to the gearbox. I guess this accounts for the debris on the magnetic sump plug.

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  22. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    I fail to see how the missing circlip caused a symptom in any way like a loose ringnut. That shaft is splined at each end and excessive end float, while bad, shouldn't cause your symptoms. Additionally your debris looks nothing like the remains of a circlip.

    It is apart, I fear you have not yet found all of the problems. Keep looking.
     
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  23. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie
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    I fear the same as Rifledriver. The last time I saw such debris in a T transmission the pinion gear was chipped. If the debris is metal you will need to make sure it has not mixed up in all your bearings. In the pinion gear story it was a complete transmission overhaul of bearings.
     
  24. belfry

    belfry Karting

    May 14, 2015
    146
    This photo just in... I was told that the bearing had 'collapsed' and that we should replace all on the bearings. The gears have been carefully checked and are all fine. I'm not sure how lucky/unlucky I've been?

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  25. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie
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    An engine/transmission have only one mission and that is to selfdestruct. I would say you are Lucky :) All the brass that is in there could have been very well damaged too.

    Like I mentioned, replacing all the bearings is unfortunately a must in these cases. But all will be good I see and when it is put together it will sound/drive like new. the transmission that is. :cool:
     

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