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Gated California's - How many and definitive source of that info?

Discussion in 'California/Portofino/Roma' started by DonBecker, Jan 24, 2020.

  1. DonBecker

    DonBecker Rookie

    Aug 22, 2006
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    Don Becker
    As a manual enthusiast, I've been tracking down details on the gated California's.

    There are a few numbers that I've seen mentioned about how many were made, but one of the more common suggestions seems to be 3.

    Does anyone have an actual source for this, or is it just a made up number?

    I've been able to locate pictures of 3 or possibly 4 cars:
    • LHD - Ext Red - Int Black - Chassis Number ...170395. This is the car that sold in Feb 2016 for approx $440k
    • RHD - Ext Silver - Int Blue - This car was listed for sale at HR Owen in London
    • LHD - Ext Black - Int Brown - Chassis Number ...271303. This car sold Sept 2019 for approx $130k
    There was another car whose pictures were posted by user "134282" here on Ferrari Chat. Its a Red/Black, LHD car, but there are a few differences from "170395" above:
    1. Shift ball is pretty beat up, and has a hex nut below it
    2. The rear edge of the shift gate doesn't sit flush with the top of the center console like the other three cars above do in their pictures.
    3. The "pininfarina" script behind the door and in front of the rear tire is missing.
    ...which makes me wonder if this car was a post-factory manual conversion.

    Is anyone aware of any Californias that have been converted to manual?

    I would imagine a natural choice would be the F430 manual transmission since it shares the same engine family.
     
    tomc likes this.
  2. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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    Aren't there a multitude of threads covering this already - pretty sure best consensus is - do we need another ?
     
  3. DonBecker

    DonBecker Rookie

    Aug 22, 2006
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    Don Becker
    How else am I supposed to raise my post count? /s

    Yes I thought it was 6...until I could only find 3-4 cars.
     
  4. DonBecker

    DonBecker Rookie

    Aug 22, 2006
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    Don Becker
    I would also add, the huge price gap in the two sales that I know of. Will be interesting to see if “rare” in this case means only “rare” or “valuable” as well.
     
  5. tomc

    tomc F1 World Champ

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    #5 tomc, Jan 24, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  6. [gTr]

    [gTr] Formula Junior

    Mar 11, 2008
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    London, U.K.
    You should ask member @ross how his friend feels about this :)
     
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  7. DonBecker

    DonBecker Rookie

    Aug 22, 2006
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    Don Becker
    @tomc: The link you posted has pictures of 170395.
    Let me know if the links below don't work for you. Both the red car and the black car I found different sets of photos where they had been spotted.

    LHD - Ext Red - Int Black - Chassis Number ...170395.
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/iHnEcgRCbGGdVjWk7

    LHD - Ext Black - Int Brown - Chassis Number ...271303.
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/4vtNLwLQJWPVhGPA7

    RHD - Ext Silver - Int Blue - Chassis Number ...???
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/X4cz82aiWcP7RpPd7

    And the 'other' Red/Black car, notice the differences between these pics and 170395:
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/TCqKNTQFtDaSMVzz9
     
  8. DonBecker

    DonBecker Rookie

    Aug 22, 2006
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    Don Becker
    Zero interest.
     
  9. tomc

    tomc F1 World Champ

    Apr 13, 2014
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    Thanks! Works like a charm.

    This article from 2010 implies that they anticipated a 10% take rate. I guess not!

    https://www.motor1.com/news/20785/ferrari-california-with-manual-trans-further-details-emerge/

    T
     
  10. DonBecker

    DonBecker Rookie

    Aug 22, 2006
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    Don Becker
    @tomc I think in one of the articles I read it stated that Ferrari offered it in 2012, 3 people ordered and then it was gone / unavailable in 2013.

    I started this thread to try and grasp just how rare they are. I'm a year or two out from a car myself, and not being able to either get a factory manual / do a conversion might make me go with something else.
     
  11. 456-boy

    456-boy Formula Junior
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    Some of the pics of the black one are mine, spotted at Modena Cars in Geneva, Switzerland. Glad to see these pics back!

    I was told by this dealer it was the 4th or 5th and at that time the 7th and last was being built.
     
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  12. DonBecker

    DonBecker Rookie

    Aug 22, 2006
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    Don Becker
    You mentioned some of the pictures are of your car, did you mean that some of the pictures in the Black / Tan link aren't your car? Half of the pictures there have your FChat username on them, the other half were taken from the auction that @ManualGearbox sold his car at. Both sets seem to match as far as I can tell.

    Interesting to hear the dealer told you there were seven total.
     
  13. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula Junior
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    Often, when humans make up a number or exaggerate, the first thing that comes to them is a number that starts with a prime or is a prime number. Since this is a prime number, 7, it is likely something that just sounded good to the salesman. Then again, he could have gotten it directly from God or Enzo...
     
  14. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
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    Nov 11, 2003
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    Brian Brown
    The transmission from a 430 is for a mid-engine car and bolts up directly to the engine. It would not work on a conversion for a California which has the engine in the front. If anyone did a conversion, they probably just bought the parts from Ferrari.
    Here is a parts diagram of the external shifter parts for the California with a manual gearbox: https://www.eurospares.co.uk/parts/ferrari/california-europe/all-pages/external-gearbox-controls-62388

    If you look at it and the other transmission/clutch/bellhousing/pedal box parts diagrams, you can see that they are unique to the California and are not shared with any other model of Ferrari.

    Brian Brown
    San Francisco Motorsports
     
  15. DonBecker

    DonBecker Rookie

    Aug 22, 2006
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    Don Becker
    I thought I would double back and update this thread with all I've discovered about the manual California's.

    Even after locating 2 of the impossibly rare (6 of 17,300 cars) transmissions I've decided to not move forward with pursuing a conversion.

    Both transmissions reportedly came from wrecked cars, and since I've only been able to locate pictures of 4 manual cars it makes me wonder if that concludes "finding" all 6.

    The California uses/used a Graziano GT-ME1 transaxle. This is from the same family as used by the Gallardo/Audi R8, however transaxles from those cars cannot be used as the housings are completely different.

    The Gallardo/Audi R8 bellhousing is integral to the differential housing, and on the California it is a separate piece bolted to the differential housing.

    In addition to the transaxle, to do a conversion on a California the auto parking brake components are all manual specific.

    The shifter box is same as found in the 430.

    The transmission housing shaft is manual specific, approx $3800.

    The engine damper/flywheel is manual specific, approx $5500.

    There are a number of parts on the manual California that are shared with the 360/430/599/612.

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  16. Fireman1291

    Fireman1291 Formula Junior
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    Why not just buy a Factory Manual car? The prices softened on them. I can guarantee without a doubt that 20+ years from now they will be worth millions. The last manuals made by Ferrari and LESS THAN 10 were made.
     
  17. DonBecker

    DonBecker Rookie

    Aug 22, 2006
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    Great question. I'm a couple of years from shopping for a California, and I would love to simply buy a manual car. If Ferrari ever offered a dealer/official conversion I would prefer to do that too, but they don't and I doubt they ever will.

    As for buying an actual factory manual, as far as I can tell, there were only 6, and I could find pictures of 4, and transmissions from two wrecked cars.

    We only have two data points as to past sales of used cars:

    Feb 2016: $440k
    Sept 2019: $130k

    As much as I would love to believe that in two years I could buy a manual California for $130k, I doubt it. If you look back at the thread here on FChat regarding that sale, there was a consensus of sorts that someone got lucky and the car should have gone for much more.

    Unless of course @Fireman1291 you're offering to sell me a manual California now, in which case I'd get rid of my Viper to get it. :)
     
  18. technom3

    technom3 F1 Rookie
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    I'll take the viper. Lol
     

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