News

Gas Analysis Machine Needed(?)

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by vincenzo, Feb 1, 2020.

  1. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,737
    Looks like some significant adjustments to the FI are going to be required on the Testarossa. Note that the left airflow sensor is not centered and is hanging up on the housing. It will not rise to the correct level. Compare the left to right sides.... look at the gap under the left side rubber bumpstop.

    Ferrari Seattle did not catch this when they announced that the FI could not be adjusted within spec. Pretty bad oversight in my opinion. Highly disappointed in FoS.

    Anyway... as I understand it, these units require gas analysis to be correctly adjusted. Assuming that is correct, can anybody suggest:

    1) a good quality gas analysis machine at reasonable cost
    2) a better textbook type source for understanding these US spec FI units and making adjustments

    The F workshop manual is pretty cursory for a newbie. Any and all recommendations are welcome.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. rpissm

    rpissm Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2013
    1,523
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Full Name:
    Joe
  3. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 29, 2008
    4,871
    Madison Ohio
    Full Name:
    David A.
    Maybe it could be adjusted with a goo air fuel ratio meter like Inovate Motorsports sells. Reported to be one of the most accurate units for sale.
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    18,966
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Do you have a copy of pages D61 to D106? (That covers KE-Jet with Lambda. The basic TR WSM is only early euro K-Jet without Lambda.)
     
  5. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,556
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    Before you do any analyzing, you will have to rectify the air plate on the fuel meter. It can't be adjusted and if it doesn't come back up and sit right, you will need to replace the whole upper body.

    I'm on my smartphone so I can't do a link search but go back and look for my thread "top of the engine refurbish"

    I had this problem and I showed the full removal and replacement of the unit. Even when lubricated, I found that it had a slight warp internally and would not come up and "bounce" like the other unit.

    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice!



    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     
  6. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,737
    Thanks for the help so far guys.... still doing research. No worries on finding your thread Shamile - I remember it clearly and can find it.

    Steve - I do have those D pages. Good theory but a tough source for ‘familiarization’.

    Joe - Thanks as well. Much easier read than the F-car workshop manual!

    David - After looking at the $3500 plus analyzers I really hope to find a more economical method. I really need to spend more time in research on this issue before spending that cash on a one time use!

    FYI - found this kit. It should be a big help if needed! Good find!

    https://cis-jetronic.com/index.php?rt=product/product&path=68_72_85&product_id=273




    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  7. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,737
    Youtube is really good for basic familiarization:

     
  8. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,556
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    That's only if the meter head needs to come apart. The meter head is a self contained unit and unbolts from the underside of the meter plate housing. The meter head just has a pin that protrudes and reacts to the movement of the meter plate. Your issue will be the meter plate housing.

    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice!

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     
  9. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    72,272
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    We would use the services of a local shop with an analyzer, to check our initial carb set up, prior to going for Smog Check....Know before you go. So call around your local market there has to be a shop that could do the testing.

    That said though the tail pipe tests will not be as exact as the individual sample ports on the header that some (most?) Ferraris have. Due to our cross flow final mufflers...
     
  10. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,737
    Gad.... I hate the idea of using a local shop. The closest folks I trust (Salerno) are a 4 hr drive away.
    https://www.salernomotorsports.com/

    Might be ok if I just get a ‘snif’ from a local and they keep their screwdrivers in their toolbox!
     
  11. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,737
    Shamile,
    Yeah... but if the extended storage period has caused the fuel to turn into shellac... that meter will presumably be the most problematic area.

    I need to make a video to share... pls check back later today.
     
    Shamile likes this.
  12. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,556
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    I understand what you're saying but without that meter plate working properly, it still won't run correctly. Parallel work on the meter head is fine but I don't think that's where your problem lies.

    My Testarossa was sitting in the garage for 6 years untouched while I danced with Lamborghinis. This was after the top end refurbish in 2010. It went off for a major service with the whole fuel system untouched. It fired right up and was in balance.

    ...and honestly, I didn't prep it for storage. Before it went in, I drained out the old fuel and put in new fuel. But the fuel in the system was left untouched as I didn't want to start the car after 6 years on unmoved timing belts.

    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice!

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     
  13. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,737
    #13 vincenzo, Feb 2, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
    Good news... Fortunately I had added Sta-bil and the fuel out of the tanks looked fine. Fingers crossed.

    I had just stumbled over that kit info and it seemed worth posting for future reference. Hopefully it won’t be needed.

    Your thread is shown below for reference. If I understand correctly, your unit’s stiction was caused by its internals rather than the diaphragm not being correctly centered in the body.

    Here is a vid of my ‘issue’.... well.... one of them anyway;)

    It seems like a person could loosen the diaphragm plate and allow it to self center in the bore. Is that not possible?

    ignore the occasional clunking sound... it is off camera noise.

     
  14. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,737
    Shamile... at the end of your thread, you button it all back up with a new diaphragm and it fired up.... some initial coughing.... but it ran just fine.

    Did you not have to make new adjustments to the FI system after all the changes?
     
  15. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,556
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    The center plate was stiffer and wouldn't come back up for some reason. After going over and over it, I couldn't find any place where it would bind up....therefore my conclusion that it had a slight warp in the body.

    When I could push it up, it would slightly graze the side...if I remember correctly. I thought there was some adjustment play on the arm as well as to center the plate. It's pretty precise factory set up and couldn't adjust it.
    The hole in the center plate is precise and no room for play or adjustment.

    This is why my emphasis on solving your plate movement first before moving on to the gas analysis adjustment.

    I know...I know, a much deeper than expected job but I wouldn't mention it if I hadn't specifically gone through this myself.

    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice!

    Sent from my SM-G950U using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  16. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,556
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    That's the amazing part....absolutely no adjustment. But, it sure ran better and the idle was smooth...no side to side roughness like when the balance is typically out.

    When it went in for the major in 2018, they did hook up their analyzing machine and it was spot on...no drift in all these years and miles.

    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice!

    Sent from my SM-G950U using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  17. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,556
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    Oh yeah, one thing I forgot to add, when you push down on the plate...like a poke, it should bounce back up with springiness in a fast movement. It shouldn't be slow or stiff.

    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice!

    Sent from my SM-G950U using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
    Jakuzzi likes this.
  18. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 29, 2008
    4,871
    Madison Ohio
    Full Name:
    David A.
    I believe the Innovate Motorsports A/F ratio meter is under $500.
     
  19. Jakuzzi

    Jakuzzi Formula 3

    Mar 26, 2005
    1,449
    PR, TX, GV
    Full Name:
    Jaime
    I saw what you did there..... ;)
     
    Shamile likes this.
  20. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,556
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    lol


    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice!

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     
    Jakuzzi likes this.
  21. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,737
    #22 vincenzo, Feb 6, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
    Took a shot at re-centering the diaphragm. Nothing to lose.

    Very sensitive adjustment... took four tries. The trick is to oil between the fender washer and the plate. Then, a few strips of paper around the diaphragm edges to help it stay centered as the bolt is secured.

    The driver side has a bit of a ‘rattle’ as it returns to its base position but is clearly free and centered. I’ll call it good.

    Hopefully the mixture and idle settings won’t be too far off when I attempt the restart. The diaphragm rose about 3/16” or so and is now level with the passenger side. Much better than it was in the photo shown in the opening post.


     
    Shamile likes this.
  22. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,556
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    Very cool! Glad you got it centered. I had no luck...and I had it apart.

    Give a little poke, do both plates rise up and bounce freely at the same rate...give or take?


    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice!

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     
  23. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,737
    Not sure... hard to tell. If different, it is not obvious. The ‘rattle’ as it comes to rest is a bit unexpected - but presumable harmless.

    I hope it runs decently with this new setting. FoS monkeyed around with it while the diaphragm was incorrectly centered... in that condition, they had no success. No wonder.

    We’ll see.
     

Share This Page