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Fuel leak

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by rustytractor, Sep 26, 2015.

  1. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
    Full Name:
    Russell Schacter
    Started the 400 today as had to move it from one storage unit to another - first time in a couple of months. Started no problem whatsoever but fuel started leaking from the bottom of the inner front wing, no doubt from the main fuel feed pipe from the tank up to the engine bay. I think she was punishing me for not paying her regular visits in the night (if only my other half got upset when I fail to do this - yeah right, dream on!!).

    I haven't had time to look for the fault yet as I had no time as I had to move all my cars because the 10,000 sq ft unit they're in is due for demolition (bummer !!)

    My question is:- is the main fuel line metal from the tank forward and then rubber from the base of the engine compartment up to the engine bay or all rubber ?

    I'm on a tight schedule to move the car so advance knowledge would really help.
     
  2. squidmark

    squidmark Karting

    Sep 11, 2011
    137
    Oxford
    Full Name:
    Howard Dent
    Petrol pipe is braided/rubber all the way inside the sill area from the pump to the fuel rails - put the car on Colin's ramp, disconnect the pipe at the pump and attach it to your new length of hose (that you have about your person) via a straight connector (no bumps), lockwire in place and pull through. You might need a second person to feed while you tug - ooer.
    Easy peasy.
     
  3. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
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    Russell Schacter
    It's not Colins ramp, it's OUR ramp !

    I'm deeply offended, just for that I'm going to totally ignore what you've said and work out how to fix it myself.

    So there !
     
  4. GT Jones

    GT Jones Formula Junior
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    Oct 15, 2011
    665
    Lincoln, MA
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    Christian J
    If you smell fuel in your trunk then replace those lines too!
     
  5. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 23, 2007
    4,880
    North Pole AK
    #5 Ak Jim, Sep 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    First of all good luck! To say you just pull the new line thru is like when you're reading a shop manual on how to replace some thing on the engine and the first step is, "remove the engine from the car". I will start off saying I think the fuel line running from the back of the car to the front was was as old as the car. I went to start my car up and when I turned on the key the gas just started puoring out all over the ground. The fuel line was so old it would not bend, if you tried to bend it it just cracked and broke apart. This is how stiff it was. One final CAUTION! My fuel line cracked in side the rocker panel, the fuel drained out of the body seam which is about 2" away from the exhaust pipe, also this is the lowest point in the fuel system and the fuel will continue to run leak out until the tanks are dry. Just because someone has changed the fuel lines in the engine compartment where you can see them doesn't mean it has been changed where it runs thru the body. As GTJones said, you might as well change all of the fuel lines in the trunk, this will require you to remove the tanks, yes this car is a real mofo to work on. I would highly recommend you get a hold of Dave Helms for his fuel lines for in the trunk. His stuff is really good but his longest section is only 4' so you will need to use different hose thru the body. After some research I chose Gates fuel line designed for fuel injection systems because it is made out of the correct rubber to withstand modern fuels (the carb line is not).
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  6. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Rookie
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    Dec 23, 2007
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    #6 Ak Jim, Sep 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    While the fuel line is straight where it goes thru the body there ar sharp 90 bends on both sides of the rocker panel. This is what it looks like at the back of the car. Be advised you can even see this, I was able to stick my camera up in the area and take the picture. Just below the fuel line is a thin aluminum plate that's poprivited to the body, this has to be removed because of the sharp bend required.
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  7. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Rookie
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    Dec 23, 2007
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    North Pole AK
    #7 Ak Jim, Sep 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Since I knew the hose was so brittle I would never be able to pull it thru so I got some bradded steel cable and was able to push it thru the old fuel line from the front to the back of the car. I then used a double sided brass hose barb/connecter and attached the steel cable to it and super glued it into the old and new hose. In this picture you can see the cable coming out of the fuel line, next to it is the fuel return line, it is steel. I don't know why Ferrari used a rubber hose for the pressurized fuel supply and a steel line for the unpressurized fuel return but they did.
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  8. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Rookie
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    Dec 23, 2007
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    #8 Ak Jim, Sep 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Even with the steel cable the fuel line wound not move at all, this was because of the sharp bend the fuel line makes as it exits the rocker panel and goes up to the top of the engine. From underneath the car you can't see where the fuel line comes out of the body, maybe if you took the header off you could. I chose to work from the top. The first step was removing the air filter box, yes that fun thing. Once that was off I could finally see the fuel line and I was able to just barely get my arm and hand into the area to pull it thru while my hired helper (wife) helped push the new line from the back of the car. In the second picture you can see the very bottom of the brake booster and at the bottom of the photo you can see the cable and fuel line.
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  9. GT Jones

    GT Jones Formula Junior
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    Oct 15, 2011
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    Lincoln, MA
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    Christian J
    Bravo for posting pics. For those who haven't changed fuel lines search the googles for the video of a lamborghini miura going up in flames.
     
  10. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
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    Russell Schacter
    Wow was I lucky !!

    It turned out that the fuel pipe which passes through the car from the back to the front appears to have already been replaced and was connected about 18" down from the top of the engine bay to another small section of rubber pipe by a small metal joining tube and two jubilee clips. The leak was coming from the joint because the jubilee clips were loose.

    It was no mean feet to tighten them up - no space to get one hand in between the servo and firewall let alone two so I couldn't really hold the pipe to tighen the clips but I eventually manage and voila - no more petrol leak !

    Having read Jims post I really feel I dodged a bullet on this one !!

    I then drove the car for the first time in a couple of months and my god did it feel great ! I've been driving so many old 40's/50's/60's Cadillacs that I forget what a fantastic car the 400 is.

    I know, I know - I'm an idiot who should be punished.........
     
  11. Ashman

    Ashman Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Sep 5, 2002
    28,381
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    John
    AK Jim, thanks for fabulous photos and sound advice on how to do this. What a ***** of a job it must be! Since these cars are anywhere from 25-43 years old, though, it is necessary and well worth doing!
     
  12. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Rookie
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    Dec 23, 2007
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    North Pole AK
    The two things that made it most difficult was the old hose was so stiff and like anything the first time you do it it take a really long time to just figure what and how to do it.
     

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