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Ferrari and FIA engine settlement

Discussion in 'F1' started by A348W, Mar 3, 2020.

  1. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    Ferrari found a loophole and exploited it but possibly ran afoul of the sporting regulations and therefore FIA got squeezed by the lawyers and engineers. FIA could have lost if taken to court. Ferrari didn’t want to fight it as some of their tech secrets could be exposed. Hence the settlement.
     
  2. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    Still think has to do with the oil in the intercooler reaching the combustion chamber and the ambiguous wording: banned if “intentional” in the rules. How could they definitely prove intent? Badly written rules, same as DAS.
     
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  3. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    the more voluminous and complex the rules are the easier to find loopholes. Example-remember the Red Bull flexi front wings prior to 2014?
     
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  4. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    Clearly Ferrari's lack of performance later last season = fuel flow. Possibly now as well. FIA could not completely prove it but the numbers on performance do not lie. Binotto is less than forthcoming as well.

    The FIA statement issued now should have been the response after testing!!
     
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  5. ingegnere

    ingegnere Formula 3
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    Like a prosecutor having to drop his case either due to lack of evidence or maybe having run with an assumption that turned out to be wrong, the FIA should just have stated that the case was closed with no charges or penalties, changed the rules if these were not adequate and we’re basically outsmarted - like they have been so many times by the blokes.

    Here they just opened the door for all and sundry to slander and defame Ferrari for cheating.
     
  6. rovexienus

    rovexienus Formula Junior
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    Most of these seven sisters are based in the UK (6 out of 7), can we call this episode "Brexcite"?
     
  7. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

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    WTF? Country has zero to do with it!!!! Other than we are bloody good at engineering :)
     
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  8. Canuck550

    Canuck550 Formula Junior

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    Melbourne should be interesting...SF damned if they do not have a solid power unit, which creates speculation of cheating last season, and if they do and were sandbagging during testing, then it raises speculation they are some how still cheating, nice spot to be in.... focus on 2021
     
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  9. rovexienus

    rovexienus Formula Junior
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    Of course the country has nothing to do with it and of course engineering in the UK is top, sorry if I hurt your feelings.
     
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  10. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Apologies if this appears a daft question, I was wondering if all the teams have to use the same fuel supplier ?

    If not, surely this opens the door, or can bring into question whether Shell or whoever could try out new formulations, for example on the Ferrari car.

    That could be a technical advancement for Ferrari, with them not necessarily breaking the rules, the FIA could ban the use of it if not legal , but could Shell insist on keeping their new formula under wraps. Just pure speculation on my part.
     
  11. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    Everybody can use the fuel they want within some limits. I guess that fuel was the first thing that FIA checked.
     
  12. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    FIA “not fully satisfied” that Ferrari power unit was legal

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-not-satisfied-ferrari-engine/4719698/

    The FIA has responded to the statement that seven Formula 1 teams issued yesterday regarding the settlement agreed between the governing body and Ferrari over its 2019 power unit.
    The FIA has said that after its investigation “it was not fully satisfied” that Ferrari had fully complied with the regulations when operating its engine, but felt that it could not prove its case due to the complexities – and that any further action might result in a complicated legal case brought by the team.

    Mercedes, Red Bull, McLaren, Renault, AlphaTauri, Racing Point and Williams – the teams that don’t run Ferrari engines – all put their names to yesterday’s statement, noting that “we strongly object to the FIA reaching a confidential settlement agreement with Ferrari to conclude this matter.”

    “The extensive and thorough investigations undertaken during the 2019 season raised suspicions that the Scuderia Ferrari PU could be considered as not operating within the limits of the FIA regulations at all times. The Scuderia Ferrari firmly opposed the suspicions and reiterated that its PU always operated in compliance with the regulations.

    “The FIA was not fully satisfied but decided that further action would not necessarily result in a conclusive case due to the complexity of the matter and the material impossibility to provide the unequivocal evidence of a breach.

    “To avoid the negative consequences that a long litigation would entail especially in light of the uncertainty of the outcome of such litigations and in the best interest of the Championship and of its stakeholders, the FIA, in compliance with Article 4 (ii) of its Judicial and Disciplinary Rules (JDR), decided to enter into an effective and dissuasive settlement agreement with Ferrari to terminate the proceedings.

    “This type of agreement is a legal tool recognised as an essential component of any disciplinary system and is used by many public authorities and other sport federations in the handling of disputes.

    “The confidentiality of the terms of the settlement agreement is provided for by Article 4 (vi) of the JDR.

    “The FIA will take all necessary action to protect the sport and its role and reputation as regulator of the FIA Formula One World Championship.”
     
  13. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Thanks, yes I believe that would be the case, just trying to work out why it's been kept under wraps, it can only be a case of protecting someones intellectual property maybe with patents pending ect.
     
  14. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    But that doesn't take into account the other engine suppliers which are left in the dark.
    They know that Ferrari got away with something "illegal", without being told what it is, by paying the FIA to keep it quiet.
    How can you run a championship in that climate?
     
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  15. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Mercedes triggered complaint while Red Bull wants P2

    http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/711855/Mercedes_triggered_complaint_while_Red_Bull_wants_P2/

    Toto Wolff brought the teams together to demand an explanation from the FIA over the Ferrari settlement while Red Bull’s Helmut Marko wants “$24 million” in compensation.

    The 2020 Formula 1 hasn’t even begun but already there’s drama and controversy.Last week the FIA announced that it has reached a “settlement” with Ferrari relating to last year’s engine but did not declare whether the settlement was because the Scuderia’s power unit was legal or if it wasn’t. Rivals had accused Ferrari of breaching fuel flow rates and by passing the FIA sensors.
    “The FIA announces that, after thorough technical investigations, it has concluded its analysis of the operation of the Scuderia Ferrari Formula 1 power unit and reached a settlement with the team,” read the statement.“The specifics of the agreement will remain between the parties.”
    Ferrari’s rivals were shocked and angered with all seven non-Ferrari power teams banding together to write an open letter to the FIA.In it they expressed a “shared commitment to pursue full and proper disclosure in this matter, to ensure that our sport treats all competitors fairly and equally.
    “In addition, we reserve our rights to seek legal redress, within the FIA’s due process and before the competent courts.

    ”According to reports, Ferrari was ratted out by a whistlebowler with Mercedes motorsport boss Wolff behind the letter to the FIA.
    He told Speedweek.com: “The whole thing is a huge mess.
    “It is not okay what Ferrari did, but still less how the FIA ??treats it. All the other teams are upset.”
    But while any possible punishment for Ferrari, if of course the engine was illegal, wouldn’t impact Mercedes, it would Red Bull.

    Red Bull finished third behind Mercedes and Ferrari while AlphaTauri was sixth in the championship.
    Red Bull want the prize money Helmut Marko feels they deserve.
    “The behavior of the FIA is the real scandal,” he said.
    “We should actually have instructed Red Bull Racing team boss Christian Horner to sue for $ 24 million in prize money that we would have been awarded for second place in the Constructors’ Championship if Ferrari had been punished accordingly.
    “It is unbelievable what is written of an agreement.”
    Marko revealed to F1-insider.com that it was Wolff who persuaded the teams to pursue the matter.
    “This time we joined the campaign initiated by Mercedes,” he said. “In the future, however, we will think about our own ways to get our rights.”

    Ferrari or the FIA have yet to comment.
     
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  16. ingegnere

    ingegnere Formula 3
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    FIA obviously not smart enough to prove the thing illegal or they would have done so.

    If the other brilliantly engineered teams didn’t figure out how to work around the regulations they should be kept in the dark - that’s the cost of not innovating.

    Should the other teams be given all the details of Merc’s DAS, for example, because the FIA declared it legal with no explanation?
     
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  17. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    Ferrari settled. That’s enough for me to know they didn’t want to risk a penalty from court.
    Mercedes engaged FIA on DAS early. Ferrari did not on its issue and lost out as we see. Better to be smart than not lol. :)
     
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  18. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

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    LOL, you’ll have to try harder than that. Fairly thicker skinned here and I know most things are written tongue in cheek
     
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  19. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    What a great distraction from Mercedes adjustable aero oh I mean steering.... Ferrari should leave F1. Ferrari should not tolerate continuing vilification. This narrative is so played out. The "sport" of F1 is so broken.
     
  20. sp1der

    sp1der Formula 3
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    Pretty sure the 'sport' only has a few years to run anyway, teams are looking to bail in the not too distant over poorly thought out rules and crippling costs.
     
  21. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    yup. this is MUCH ado about nothing

    suing...give me a break
     
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  22. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    Not a distraction. Mercedes brought the DAS idea to the FIA. What did Ferrari do? DAS was known to the FIA. This is not a surprise to the system. Binotto is not trustable at all. We are in compliance lol??? SO you settled? This FIA - Ferrari mess is entertaining. Sad the team has lost performance.
     
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  23. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    You don't sound sad...
     
  24. Korr

    Korr F1 World Champ
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    Yep. Another series of poor decision making on the FIA's part. They settled, and now they are upset they settled? Will an adult please stand up and run FIA for a change.
     
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