Ferrari and FIA engine settlement | FerrariChat

Ferrari and FIA engine settlement

Discussion in 'F1' started by A348W, Mar 3, 2020.

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  1. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
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  2. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The FIA is on the spot now.
    Lack of transparency will throw a cloud of suspicion on its dealing with potential technical infringement.
     
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  3. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Media claim Whistleblower behind Ferrari scandal

    http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/711665/Media_claims_whistleblower_behind_Ferrari_scandal/

    Tuesday 3 March at 07:35 : Mar.3 (GMM) The Italian media suspects a whistleblower is behind the bizarre saga surrounding the legality of Ferrari's 2019 engine.

    Rival teams are reportedly furious that the FIA reached a secret "settlement" following a lengthy investigation into how the power unit works.
    At best, the story is confusing.
    "To understand, look outside the FIA," an unnamed team engineer told Italy's Corriere della Sera.
    Correspondent Giorgio Terruzzi suspects that "confidential technical information" flowed out of Ferrari to the governing FIA.
    He wrote: "It is known that Toto Wolff is a sworn enemy of Ferrari after the veto that was put on any team boss being promoted to the top of Liberty Media.
    "Wolff has the character and ambition to try to get what he wants. The FIA statement is ambiguous, of course, but it is necessary to quell a ferocious and even darker conflict."
    Leo Turrini, another Italian journalist known to be close to Ferrari, wrote on his Quotidiano blog: "Throughout this story, the FIA has acted as if it had information from - to use an English term - a whistleblower.
    "I am not (spy novel author) John le Carre, but I do not think I am wrong," he added.
    Many other F1 insiders are predicting that this is just the beginning of what will become a deeper scandal.

    "The question of whether Ferrari cheated is almost secondary compared to the problem of transparency that this creates," an unnamed F1 team member told Ouest France newspaper.

    "This is not in line with today's world and the demands for transparency in terms of the governance of society and sport, to which the FIA subscribes in its statutes," another insider added.


    It is believed several of Ferrari's rivals have asked the FIA for clarification.
    "While respecting the confidentiality and legality of the agreements, (the FIA) is open to the queries of teams," AFP news agency quotes an FIA official as saying.
     
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  4. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
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    I’d suspect the overriding issue is lack of transparency as the article mentions. We “should” be a line way from the era of Bernies deals!!!

    As the FIA have not come clean, it appears that they have cut Ferrari a special deal! (Expect this thread to be very quiet on here! )
     
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  5. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    I will add to this. Its difficult to keep things quiet lol

    The FIA's investigation into Ferrari raised more questions than answers

    With 11 minutes remaining in Formula One's preseason testing, the FIA released a short statement saying it had investigated Ferrari's power unit and reached a confidential agreement with the Italian team. The timing, brevity and unexpected content of the email immediately set alarm bells ringing in the paddock, not least because those with knowledge of the agreement had already left the circuit in the direction of the airport.


    The statement said the details of the agreement would remain between the FIA and Ferrari, leaving a blank canvas for rivals, media and fans to unload speculation. The other nine teams had no knowledge of the investigation before the statement landed in their inboxes, and some expressed shock and a great deal of suspicion at its contents.

    You could also sense a huge amount of frustration as, while the statement did not confirm Ferrari had broken any rules, it did not address the suspicions that rival teams have harboured about Maranello's power unit for over a year.

    What's left is a messy situation and a series of questions that might never receive satisfactory answers.

    What do we know?
    Rival teams were suspicious of Ferrari throughout 2019 Photo by Peter J Fox/Getty Images
    Part of the FIA's role in F1 is to monitor the legality of all cars and power units and investigate anything suspicious accordingly. The first section of Friday's statement tells us that the FIA completed a thorough investigation into Ferrari's power unit over the winter and analysed the way in which the team was operating it.

    Such investigations are not unheard of, but this one came after a great deal of suspicion around Ferrari's perceived power advantage in 2019. Ferrari has arguably had the best power unit since 2018, but its advantage appeared to increase significantly in 2019 and did so at a time when mature engine regulations were expected to bring about performance convergence.

    To understand the concerns, it's important to have a grasp of how the current F1 power units work and the regulations that define them. The existing turbo-hybrid rules were introduced in 2014 and are written so as to encourage fuel efficiency. By setting a limit at which fuel can be consumed by the engine -- 100kg per hour -- the regulations challenge the teams to generate as much power from their limited fuel flow as possible.

    Each drop of fuel has a calorific value, and, when it is burned, the aim is to transfer as much of that energy to the crankshaft as possible. That ratio of potential energy in the fuel to power at the crankshaft dictates the thermal efficiency of the engine, and in the early years of the turbo-hybrid regulations, F1 manufacturers found big gains, going from roughly 40% thermal efficiency in 2014 to over 50% by 2016.

    But the law of diminishing returns means that the longer the rules stay the same, the harder it becomes to find gains, and Ferrari's improved straight-line performance did not fit with the gradual progress expected in the sixth year of stable regulations. Naturally, its rivals were suspicious of its advantage at the start of the year, but they initially held back from formally questioning what Ferrari was doing.

    Ferrari itself said that its impressive acceleration and high top speeds were only partly down to improved engine performance and that the rest was coming from the low-drag aerodynamics of its car. But without knowing the figures from Ferrari's engine dyno and wind tunnel, there is no way of pinpointing exactly where balance the lies and how much extra horsepower Ferrari had found.

    Nevertheless, rival teams were convinced there was more at play than a low-drag car, and while the power gains appeared remarkable within the regulations, they would look a lot less impressive if Ferrari had found a way around the fuel flow regulations.

    One theory put forward by a rival team suggested a controlled leak of oil from the intercooler to the combustion chamber under high operating pressures, which when burned would provide extra calorific value to the existing mix of fuel and oxygen and result in more power. It would be very hard to detect as the engine would still be burning the normal amount of fuel and, because it was coming from the intercooler, it would also avoid detection when the oil consumption of the engine was measured at the end of the race. But although the FIA confirmed that such a system would indeed be illegal on any car, to this day there is no proof that Ferrari was using one.

    Another theory put to the governing body was that Ferrari might have found a way to trick the FIA fuel flow sensor to allow the rate of fuel to the engine to go beyond 100kg per hour undetected. That would obviously provide more power but would require a system that either interferes with the frequency of the FIA's fuel flow sensor or works around it. Again, the FIA confirmed that such a system would be in breach of the regulations without suggesting or proving that any team had managed to do so.

    The hope among rival teams was that the FIA's clarifications, issued via amendments to the regulations known as technical directives, would force Ferrari to adapt the way it ran its engine and would impact on its performance. But despite a slight dip in form at the U.S. Grand Prix, which Ferrari attributed to an increase in drag in the pursuit of more downforce, the results of the final few races proved inconclusive.

    But the FIA wasn't finished. After the Brazilian Grand Prix, it seized parts of Ferrari's fuel system to continue its investigations. Not long after, a further technical directive was issued, announcing that a second fuel flow sensor would be introduced in 2020 to tighten the FIA's monitoring of fuel consumption. Again, there was no suggestion from the governing body that Ferrari had broken the rules, and it appeared to be a way of allaying fears heading into the new season.

    Speaking at a Christmas lunch after the 2019 season, Ferrari team principal Mattia Binotto told journalists he believed his team had proved its power unit was completely legal.

    "If I look at the whole season, we have been one of the most-checked teams -- both before and after the technical directives had been worked up," he said. "And when you have got a performance advantage -- and certainly we had it for the whole season, because we've had a power advantage compared to our competitors since the first race -- being checked is normal and it is somehow good because through the checks you are proving your legality after the TD has been issued.

    "The number of checks on our cars have multiplied, the results have been shown to the FIA and the details have been discussed. So whatever could have been done through collaboration with the FIA has been done.

    "We have never changed our way of operating the engine for the last part of the season, showing that our power unit is fully legal. Had that not been the case, if there would have been any non-legality, it would have come out at the very first check."

    What does the agreement between the FIA and Ferrari mean?
    Unknown to the media and rival teams, the FIA had continued its investigations after Binotto's statement and completed a full analysis of the operation of Ferrari's power unit earlier this year, which likely included the fuel system but was not limited to it. It appears to be a significant undertaking on the part of the FIA, but to the outside world the only tangible result of all that hard work was two paragraphs in a statement.

    We have to assume that, had the FIA found Ferrari's power unit to be in clear breach of the regulations, it would have said so and delivered a punishment through its own internal framework. The fact an agreement was reached suggests there was not enough evidence to do that, but because the statement does not explicitly say Ferrari's power unit was found to be in compliance and does not give any details, the same old questions hang over the 2019 season.

    To reach a definitive conclusion, the FIA could have taken the matter to court, but given the complicated nature of F1 power units and Ferrari's stated belief that it was acting within the regulations, it would have likely been a long and expensive legal battle with the potential to damage the image of F1. Add to that no guarantee of a satisfactory outcome at the end and an agreement with Ferrari might have seemed like a preferable outcome for the FIA.

    The second paragraph of the statement said Ferrari had "agreed to a number of technical commitments that will improve the monitoring of all Formula One power units for forthcoming championship seasons as well as assist the FIA in other regulatory duties in Formula One and in its research activities on carbon emissions and sustainable fuels". Once again, it is framed as an agreement rather than a punishment, but it still looks to the outside world as if Ferrari has had to make a concession in order for the situation to go away. When contacted by ESPN for details, a Ferrari spokesperson was unable to offer any further comment.

    Of course, the agreement is not a satisfactory outcome for anyone outside of Ferrari and the FIA, and the question remains: did Ferrari break the rules in 2019? Rival teams are assessing their options to get an answer, but the statement is not like a stewards' decision and there is no obvious mechanism within the FIA's own regulations for it to be challenged.

    But if one thing is clear, the questions raised by the investigation and the FIA's statement are not simply going to disappear before the start of the season.

    https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/28826857/the-fia-investigation-ferrari-raised-more-questions-answers
     
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  6. Barbedwyre

    Barbedwyre Karting

    Jan 21, 2018
    115
    This is like the NFL and the Patriots video tapes. All you did was cause lasting problems by not being transparent. At least Ferrari didn’t win AND they didn’t release info. I couldn’t imagine the uproar. FIA... “you got some splainin to do”.
     
  7. sp1der

    sp1der F1 Rookie

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    So when do Merc get thoroughly investigated for DAS, holes in the wheels etc, Ferrari clearly found a loop hole as the other do yet investigated to death. The FIA has been a joke since Todt was at the Helm.
     
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  8. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Mercedes were quite engaged with the FIA on DAS. I suspect Ferrari were not with the PU operations they used. This is not about Mercedes but Ferrari. Both have benefit from the FIA. I do not think Mercedes are an issue. The unit was observed and banned for next year - DAS. The rules applying to this item were clear. They may not pass review at races yet. There is a question about Parcferme and DAS.

    The mystery of the 'deal' is what is not transparent. Thats a Ferrari and FIA issue.
     
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  9. Barbedwyre

    Barbedwyre Karting

    Jan 21, 2018
    115
    Haven't you learned yet... everything is about Mercedes. When Redbull was the most vocal about the Ferrari's pace and then lack thereof. The problem as you stated is an FIA issue. Just be consistent and transparent. Don't blame another team for that.
     
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  10. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    Fia has never been transparent. Secret Pirelli tests they organised with Mercedes anyone?
     
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  11. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Why? It's let mercedes get away with things for long enough. FIA received a complaint from Mercedes and Red Bull and stuck extra measurement things on Ferrari engine. Performance went down again. Ferrari entered a grey area and that's it.

    When red bull was flexing wings FIA dreamed up more and more complicated ways to measure wing flex on the spot...and red bull kept passing. Then they said red bullls cold blowing was somehow using the engine as an aerodnyamic device and stopped them doing it.

    Mercedes gets away with illegal tyre tests and freaky wheels, knowing regulations beforehand (even drawing them up) and you don't care.

    But now that Ferrari has done something it's an issue.

    What are you doing here? You're on the wrong forum.
     
  12. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

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    I raised this very point when it hit the TV news about SF power unit. It was an inside job, it was so obvious the way Mercedes & Red Bull acted with uncanny certainty.

    It was SF fault for not holding a little back in its performance gain. It drew too much attention.

    Tony
     
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  13. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    Btw get ready to this year’s pantomime about Mercedes struggling just enough not to get their system banned, only to get to the last race after winning both championships and clocking the fastest laps of the race on 40 laps older tyres than the others
     
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  14. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

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  15. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

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  16. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

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    there’s a funny old thing
     
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  17. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    In way yes, but the suspicions were already there, hence they had to fit a 2nd fuel sensor last year.
    IMO the FIA are keeping this under-wraps because someone has blown the whistle on them, and coming clean would cause a complete **** storm, and it could possibly effect last years race results ect.
     
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  18. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

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    If I´m not mistaken, previous years results can´t be protested.
     
  19. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

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    There is a vole in FIA or Ferrari?
     
  20. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    There is a veiled threat to rake this to court !
    The FIA and Ferrari in the dock ? I don't think so.
    The matter will be settled out of court, surely, but some heads may roll at the FIA.
     
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  21. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I suspect a Ferrari employee just my guess.
     
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  22. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

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    Possibly one of those strategists LOL
     
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  23. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Stepney's ghost ?
     
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  24. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    LOL The thing is any big jump in PU performance is going to attract attention from other teams regardless of who that team is, especially as it's getting harder and harder to make any improvements with the static rules being in place for a while.

    It will be interesting to see how this pans out.
     
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  25. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    Stepney´s son?

    "I´LL AVENGE MY FATHER, MUHAHAHAHAHA!!"
     

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