FERRARI 412i

I owned Al Garthwait's former 400GT 5 speed. He had used it as his dailey driver and it was in great shape. I loved and it and drove it about 25k miles in two years before trading it on a TR. If you get a 400, be sure you get a 5 speed.

 

I test drove a 412 5-speed.

I think the car is a beautiful car, and it was appealing to me because it was very unique.

However, the car is an absolute pig to drive in my opinion.

The brake pedal is very, very, very (Did I mention very?) stiff. Getting the car to slow down is like leg-pressing 100 pounds with one leg.

The shifter is terrible. Shifting between gears requires real effort. As an experienced 348 driver, I know what a stiff shifter can feel like. But the 348 shifter is like a knife through warm butter compared with the 412 shifter. The 412 shifter is very, very, very stiff. Shifting is supposed to be part of the fun; but in the 412, it's a terrible burden.

The engine sounds nice. The car has power, but the engine and car felt like they were ready to fall apart as I climbed the RPM range!

Of course, the car handled like a pig as well. But the one I drove had the absurdly-sized stock tires and rims, so I suppose the handling characteristics can be improved by altering the wheel-tire setup.

I can't remember what the clutch felt like...

Ultimately, I concluded that the car was nice to look at, but a disaster to drive.

 

Keep driving your entry level V8 sports car then. You'll never want to drive anything earlier than 1980 or so either. You absolutely hate a Daytona.

The cars came from a different era when they were heavy, but very predictable. Yes, the gearbox takes effort, yes, the brakes are heavy, yes, the clutch is heavy. But, once you master it, it is a very rewarding driving car. I've tracked mine several times and trust me, I chicken out before the car does.

These cars were designed for one major purpose. High speed grand touring. Around town, its not too bad, just leave it in 3rd gear and treat it as drive. You'll never run out of torque.

If you are looking at a 412, get the 5 speed if you can find one. Get one that has been driven, as they are very complicated to sort if you have to go through each system. Don't let others tell you different, they are very great rides for what they were meant for.

Cheers,
Erik
- official 365/400/412 cheerleader

 

I take it, then, that you don't disagree with my description of the way the 412 drives.

All I intended to do was to describe my driving experience with the car. Most of the things I said in my post were facts as plain as the blueness of the sky. I also indicated the point of view from which I was speaking so that the reader could make his own conclusions as to my personal biases. But I did not at all suggest that my point of view was the only point of view.

Erik, you are probably right--I would probably not enjoy driving any of the "older" Ferraris that have driving characteristics similar to those I described in my assessment of the 412. (I would, however, be open to test-driving any and all of them.)

But this simply means that those cars aren't for me. It doesn't mean that my personal taste is poor or that my opinions are invalid; neither does it mean that my car or any other car is inferior or superior.

 

Dave:

Just jerking you chain. Sarcasm is hard to express in online formats. I wasn't meaning to offend.

That said, I think you drove a bad example. The gearbox has "agricultural" style throws, but it still should be easy to row. The brakes aren't rock hard and the clutch can be adjusted. I've also never thought that the car was going to fall apart as I drove one.

For a properly sorted car, it should ride a little soft (but not floaty), but be very willing in the turns. Tires do make a difference (I'm running Pirelli P4000's on mine and they are much better than the XWX's it had on it when I got it). Was the rear suspension working? If the self leveling shocks were shot, it will ride like hell.

You're welcome to drive my 365 if you get a chance for comparison.

Regards,
Erik

 

Erik, How does the 365 compare to the Mondial, in particular with regard to clutch, brake and shifter feel?
Thanks
Sam

 

I have to agree with Erik's assessment that maybe the 412 that you drove is not a typical example. I have owned a 400i 5 speed for six years and my experience is that the brakes are firm but certainly not hard and they can haul the speed down very well without stressing my leg. The clutch is on the stiff side and isn't my first choice if I expect to be caught in stop and go traffic, but it isn't terrible. Shifting is smooth and deliberate not hard or balky at all.

The car is heavy and therefore is not at its best in rapid transitions from right to left and back again. Obviously not a track car. But it is very predictable and very neutral in handling and you can use the power to induce oversteer as you want to. Tires can make a difference and my car can really make the Michelin TRX's work hard if I'm pushing it. The car is solid and handles bumps pretty well. On the road, I feel that there is more than enough handling and speed for any rational situation.

The car is designed for covering long distances at high speed and in pretty good comfort, not just on interstates but any reasonable country road short of mountain switchbacks.

They're not for everyone, but I've really enjoyed mine so far.

John

 

Thank you for the invitation, and no offense taken.

 

Agreed, 412 is a very nice car to drive. With a 5 speed, around town, freeways or mountain roads, does not matter, it is quite at home.

 

You can see from the debate, that you will definitely need to drive one to make your decision. Good luck with your decision!

 

The clutch in the moon dog is very light, brakes are similar. The shifter in the 365 is a very long throw and isn't really set up for super quick shifts, whereas the 8 has the standard 8 cylinder gearbox, a little notchy when cold, but nice when it is warm. The bigger car is more GT than the smaller one. There is loads more space in the 365 and the driving position is much more comfortable.

As far as differences driving, I originally bought the Mondial for my wife. She drove them back to back and prefers the 365. She felt that she really had to "drive it hard" and prefered the torque of the V12. As Frank will point out now, never drive less than 12 cylinders.

Its been my experience that the Pininfarina built cars have much better build quality than the Scaglietti cars and the quality of the interior is much better.

They are very different cars, if they were the same, I wouldn't own one of each.

 

I've been looking out for a 412 now for the last couple of months and I'm due to test three over the next week. All are meant to be top quality cars and two are manual gearboxes. I'll let you have my impressions when I've tested the cars.

I have had people say to me that you would never want to buy a 412 with a manual box and others that it has to be a manual to enjoy the range of the engine. Manual was a special order in the UK on these cars and so Ferrari obviously intended it to be used with an auto. Most afficianados just don't like the idea of an auto on a Ferrari particularly a three speed.

I have no particular illusions about the 412. If it goes half as well as it looks that's good enough for me!

 

Tom

I'm sure I posted similar comments in your UK thread - FWIW I would not have the 3 speed auto after experiencing it in a XJS 5.3 V12 and that was in 1990! You go from 0 - 20ish mph in 1st, which leaves 20 - 150ish mph in just 2 gears, you simply can't access the engines power when and where you need it. As for kick down forget it!!

Just my £0.02 worth - again

 

Hi Kevan

Yes, and your words ring in my ears when I am tempted to forget the manual cars and get on with an auto, examples of which at incredibley reasonable prices are easy to obtain.

I got in the post this morning, a late eighties edition of 'Fast Lane' with a full length test of a new manual car. Be interesting to see what it says when I have a moment to read it.

 

Couple of quotes from the 'Fast Lane' article. the article was written by Peter Dron a very experienced journalist. He was testing a fairly new car in 1988.

'I cannot understand why anyone, other than a partially disabled driver, should wish to by a Ferrari with an automatic gearbox. It seems to me to take a lot of the joy out of the operation and in any case, although once among the world's best, the GM400 used in the 412 seems like a very dated piece of equipment. Ferrari's own five-speed manual may not be the fastest changing gearbox in the world, with a rather long movement, but it is certainly positive, and well sprung towards the third/fourth plane. the clutch, though heavier than that of the average saloon car, is fairly light by the standards of high performance cars. Shifting ratios smoothly is as easy in the 412 as in any of the ZF or Getrag-boxed opposition'.

'With the big, ventilated discs on all four wheels the 412 has the sort of stopping power required in such a powerful and heavy car. The pedal is not as heavy in operation as those of some rivals and its feel and the progression of the system are just right...'

The overall impression of the car then was positive in most ways.

 

I have owned my 1988 412 (manual) for only a few months, but would like to join the chat. After 30 years with a succession of Bentleys and Jags (with a few Alfas thrown in) I was looking for something that combined sophistication and performance and the 412 fit the bill, perfectly. I think it was the most elegant design ever for a GT - and one that set the stage for many cars that followed. I use it as my daily driver, in town, on Swiss country roads and German autobahns. For an Italian car, it has very good build quality.

I think it is fair to say that the 412 represented the end of period for Ferrari, the last of the 12 cyl, front engine - rear drive cars, and is more of a "classic" car, in its engineering, than a modern one. For me, that is part of the appeal. Maybe it's a generational thing, but I grew up driving Moss gearboxes (no synch on first), no power steering, drum brakes, rock hard suspension, etc. Over the years, many "modern car drivers" tried my E-types, for example, and just didn't get it. Why should they? Several times a week I slip into my Range Rover and marvel at the ease and comfort of it - it's an engineering marvel. But then I get back into the 412 and I am transported to another time and place. In the end, it is fruitless to compare older and younger cars.

I look forward to further exchanges with the very select group of 412 owners.

Ken

 

Ken

Welcome to the family! I've owned a 1983 400i 5 speed since 1998 and I still get goosebumps when I fire it up for a drive! An hour in the Ferrari is far better than any time with a shrink for restoring my sense of well-being and relaxation.

Many happy miles and smiles with your 412. Can you tell us a little about its history, color, serial number and how you acquired it?

John

 

About the same cost, too bad I can't get my insurance company to pay for the maintenance. I'd love a $10 co-pay on a major service.

 

It would seem to me that the Jaguar XJ-S and the Ferrari 365/4** series are similar animals in that they fill the same basic niche and also offer a lot of car for the money in their respective marques. This is a very interesting comparison for me as I appreciate the styling of both. Nice to hear some input from those with seat time in these cars. These big V12's are very cool and worthy of much enthusiasm as they take us to a different era so to speak.

 

I currently own three V12 powered GT cars, a Jag a BMW and a Ferrari. In my opinion, the Ferrari is by far the most fun. The Jag is the most comfortable and, to me, the most pleasant for long trips. The BMW is, well, German. Not particularly fun, not really comfortable, but handles well and is put together quite well. If you enjoy working on your car, then the Ferrari is the most rewarding I think. Mine is a 1978 6-carb 5-speed model. It is quite straight forward with little electronics to get in the way. I'm not sure about the injected models. If I could only keep one of them, I would choose the Ferrari.

Joe Bergmann

 

After I sold my last e-type coupe, I found myself spending more and more time reading my classic car mags and knew it was time to get another car - something with outstanding performance, comfort, and substantial enough that my wife would feel comfortable and safe (which she never did in the jag).

I was in Berlin, on business, and stopped by the Meilenwerk - a huge old factory that has been turned into a center for classic and high performance cars - dozens of dealers, service facilities, car book dealers, etc. - quite impressive. As I looked at around 100 cars - a full range of types and ages - I kept coming back to a graphite 412. I was familiar with the model, but was so taken with its elegant lines. Scuderia - the Berlin Ferrari dealership - is located in the same space and I asked the head of service to check out the car. He called me and said - it looks great. I asked him if he actually put the car on a lift and checked it thoroughly - he admitted he had not, being impressed by the cosmetics and "history." I asked him to please do so. The next day, he called back and said the car has significant problems and to pass on it. He refused to accept any payment.

I continued my search throughout Europe and found 3 412's for sale in Switzerland - the home to more Ferraris than any other country. One was minutes away from my home, one in Basel and the third had no photo. I came very close to purchasing the nearby car. The dealer had a wide range of recent Ferraris, as well as Porsches and Lotus. I found it nearly impossible to enter or exit any of these cars with any degree of grace and it reinforced my belief that the 412 was the car for me. Besides, I didn't want to be a cliché - a guy around 60 with a little red sports car (no insult intended to any of you who fit the description). I spoke with the last (of three) owner and he acknowledged that he had many problems (the car had gone only 25,000 km, but had invoices for thousands in work), but assured me that the car was now totally sorted out.

At the last moment I called the number for the photo-less car. I found that it had only 23,000 Km (13,800 miles) from new, one owner - a Dutchman who had a chalet in the mountains and came a few times each year - with full service history (showing nothing outside of normal servicing). The only thing that was replaced was the exhaust (which wears out with time, regardless of upkeep).

I drove down to a town called Chur - which is the gateway to places like St. Moritz, Davos, Arosa, etc. The car is Argento with tan leather. It is one of the few 412s with cats - meaning I can get it through the tough Swiss controls with no problems. The paintwork and interior are flawless and truly as it left the factory. The plastic covers on the kick plates were never removed. I had my own mechanic come with me for a second view. After a thorough check up (on a lift) and test drive, he said buy it - which I did.

Yes, the gear changes are long and the break pedal needs a firm leg, but the acceleration is wonderful and the handling on back roads and autobahns is superb. All of that with great airconditioning and really supportive seats. Most of all - I love the way it looks - the thrill each time the garage door opens and I see its lovely rear end. My only regrets: I wish the exhaust had a bit more resonance and that my drive from home to work was a bit longer (only 10 minutes) - I often take detours, just for the fun.

All this is quite new and time will tell if this was a good move. I hope so.

The headquarters for Swissol are down the road and I bought a bunch of their outrageously expensive products - which I must say are impressive.

I hope I did not bore you. I will try to be brief in further writings.

Ken

 

Ken, GREAT story.

I love the 400/412 line. I talked my wife into buying a 412 auto about ten years ago and we even put it on track at Road Atlanta and Rockingham. It was perfectly reasonable there. The back-seat passenger's facial expressions were worth the price of admission!

Alas, she sold it back to to the dealer she bought it from a couple years later for exactly the same purchase price and she now drives an E46 M3 (6-speed). Still, every once in a while, she'll say, "remember that mountain trip in the 412? Man, that car sounded good..."

-Peter

 

A few years back one of the British Jaguar magazines did a comparison between a XJS and a 400i. I think that I have the article scanned into my other computer. I also think that the Jaguar magazine concluded that the Ferrari was something special, quite an admission!

John

 

Okay, it was in the January 2002 issue of Classic Jaguar World magazine that compared a 1978 XJ-S with a 400i. The best line is "So which is the better car? What a daft question. The Ferrari is."

John