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F40 vs Porsche Carrera GT

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by RomanD', May 16, 2020.

  1. 456mgt

    456mgt Formula Junior

    Mar 24, 2002
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    Reading what you've written there Roman, you're perfectly well aware that neither is the obvious choice for a cross continental blast. I've driven F40s but never owned one, though I've had my CGT for 13 years, and have done a few trips from the UK and across France in it.

    The main issue with the CGT is luggage space, you can see all of what's usable from outside the car. Longest I've been touring in it is 2 weeks, with my girlfriend at the time who could pack everything she needed into a soft bag that went under her knees plus a suit carrier behind her seat. Everything I needed was in a suit carrier behind my seat because I don't need vast numbers of shoes to go with different outfits.. We were planning to do laundry in Nice, only to find the laundry guys were on strike, but it wasn't any real hardship to be honest. It's usually pretty warm weather so you don't wear much. We chose hotels where you could park, either right out front or in the back and secured by a gate or something. If anyone was insisting on valet parking my car, I said I would need them to first sign a disclaimer that they would pay to recover the car back to England and replace the clutch if they burned it out. No-one took me up on it, and I gave them a tip anyway.

    The Cote D'Azur has been carpet bombed with enormous speed bumps and it's just no fun crawling over them every few hundred metres. I used the car for a trip to Monaco a couple of years ago and wouldn't bother again. The real point of doing something like this, and I really get it, is driving on rural roads in France, which are EPIC.They're well maintained and lightly trafficked so a car with the performance of a CGT is just wonderful. I absolutely love Col Bonhomme in the Vosges (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Col_du_Bonhomme). In the CGT, up and over this is simply life affirming. And in a 'lesser' car is no great shakes. But in something with explosive performance and brakes is just mega. Managed to dig this up from 2008, the first trip I took. Photos no longer there but the text is https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=553447

    Whichever your choice of chariot, just do it.
     
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  2. RomanD'

    RomanD' Karting

    Nov 5, 2012
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    Roman
    Yes, actaully there is ex-Eric Clapton 550 Barchetta for sale at DK at the moment. I'm still hoping to snatch a landmark supercar if H2 is as good the beginning of the year business-wise. Should things go south a bit though, 550 would be a considiration for sure. Together with Diablo 30 SE.

    F12tdf is great but very close to CGT price-wise. Also, it would blow if an 812 based replacement is just more of the same thing. I would rather wait this one out.
     
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  3. RomanD'

    RomanD' Karting

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    I think, should things stay good money-wise, next year I will post a thread here "why you shouldn't do roadtrips in F40" :)
     
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  4. RomanD'

    RomanD' Karting

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    Thanks a lot for sharing, very encouraging.
     
  5. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 25, 2002
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    the problem with the barchetta is the lack of a decent top.
    the bikini top has a speed limit, and the hardtop is ugly and impossible to store on board.
     
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  6. RomanD'

    RomanD' Karting

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    Yep, very good point.
     
  7. 275GTB

    275GTB Formula 3

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    then look at 575 super america, hard top incorporated
     
  8. RomanD'

    RomanD' Karting

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    #33 RomanD', May 18, 2020
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
    My personal opinion, but manual 575 Superamerica is stupid money for what they are, especially considering that 550 Barchetta is arguably sweeter car to drive, looks cooler and is much cheaper since they were all manual.

    Also, did a quick research. For anyone tempted by 550 Barchetta, there is apparently an aftermarket canvas roof that can manage 140mph and looks even better.

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/550-barchetta-roof-aftermarket.555354/
     
  9. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Love this ;)
     
  10. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    hmmm that top says 70km/h. but maybe they came up with another that can do 200km/h as you say.....

    btw, have you ever been inside a tent in a hurricane? :)
     
  11. RomanD'

    RomanD' Karting

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    #36 RomanD', May 19, 2020
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
    Nono, the German aftermarket top promises 230km/h. Check out post #2 in the linked thread. Also, in the video on his Barchetta Harry Metcalfe was referring to some German tops that can take higher top speeds than standard, so I’m fairly confident there is something on the market.

    No, never. Coupe (non-Evo) was bad enough already. Ok car around town (drove it in Dubai for a week or so) but was comfortably the worst car I ever took to Jabel Jais. Understeery, ABS kicks in too early, feels heavy on its feet. You can carry fair amount of speed but not a lot of fun.

    Took a Performante to the same road and omg, ABS is sorted, front is much more planted, car feels agile and adjustable mid-corner . Felt like an upgrade over 488 (that I drove the **** out of there on multiple occasions) even while being down on power.

    After writing all that, I have suddenly realised that you were asking about hurricane, not Huracan. Maybe someone finds it useful. :)
     
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  12. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2013
    2,136
    Worth chatting to DK, in their recent youtube video they showed a fire damaged F40 they are rebuilding and addressing many of the issues raised here by planning to modernise it in a Singer type way.

    This could be the route higher mileage/damaged examples end in the future, as parts supply dwindle to be able to put them back to standard. Typically these had become LM clones in the past.

    Maybe find a less expensive donor F40 and have DK or others do the same for you?

    The F40 will always be iconic regardless of spec.
     
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  13. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    well that was funny - i was wondering what you were going on about at the start :)

    ok, if you say they have an adequate top, then maybe it works.....i will remain skeptical until you report back what it was like to live with for 1000 miles !

    mind you, the f40 has no sound deadening, so droning on the highway for a few hours will make you deaf - i ended up wearing a pair of ear plugs.
     
  14. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior
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    Mar 11, 2013
    573
    I loved loved loved the CGT but let’s all be honest for those who know them well, it is precarious in certain situations and can have extreme maintenance bills attached to it. Everything’s a process with them as anything that precise should be.

    Carbon racing car for the road. What you would imagine a modern day 550 Spyder would need to be. Getting in the groove alone with one is a magical car experience. It is in no way a beginner supercar. If you can really drive and are comfortable with a car that demands 100% focus 100% of the time then it’s a great thing.

    I’ll have to revisit when there’s more seat time in the F40. Immediate impression is our Euro car is way smaller and lighter than the CGT. Better visibility and clearance.
     
  15. RomanD'

    RomanD' Karting

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    Thanks for your response.

    I think I’ll focus on F40 at this stage and leave CGT for the future.
     
  16. RomanD'

    RomanD' Karting

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    Good, means I won’t hear myself screaming of the back pain. :D
     
  17. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    after that mega trip, i had a lumbar support cushion custom made from the same seat material, and it helps a lot.
    since you seem to have made up your mind, i will add a few more comments in random order:
    - call simon kidston to see if he knows any for sale
    - look through the uk dealers, they seem to have several, but you need to look them over carefully.
    - do not be dissuaded from cars that have improved brakes, tubi's, bigger turbos etc - they work better. :)
    - whatever you buy, pls have it completely checked out by an f40 expert - DK or Bob Houghton for example. if they tell you to do something, do it.
    - if the tires are very old, even if they have good tread, replace them
    - use the car, or at least start it and warm it up, minimum every 2 weeks, if not every week. run the ac as well.
    - have the f40 expert install a cigar lighter somewhere unobtrusive - you will need it for all sorts of things.
    - get a stronger battery
    - practice driving it around empty places before you take it into a tight space first time - once you are strapped in its not so easy to see the far corners, and there is no power anything - hope you have strong arms and shoulders :)
    - get the schedoni luggage - you can fit so much more in then.
    - do not bother installing a radio - completely useless given the music coming from behind you.
    - after you have the car back, get it fully detailed, and then Xpel the entire car
    - if ever anybody offers you a spare part for an f40, buy it, even if you dont need it. i am not suggesting hoarding, but i have come across people liquidating stock etc and i have bought parts and it has been a good thing.
     
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  18. 275GTB

    275GTB Formula 3

    Jan 12, 2010
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    all very good points from Ross.

    If the car is going to be stored in an underground car park, make sure you have access to a power supply, fit a trickle charger, nothing worse than turning up to take your pride and joy for a blast and its dead!
    I assume your insurance will require a Tracker, this will drain the power over time.
    Roman I can give you some direction for good insurance in the UK when the time comes.
    Also buy a very good indoor car cover, so the car is protected when stored - I can also direct you where and what to buy.

    hope it all works out, and you fulfill your dream
    cheers Mark
     
  19. RomanD'

    RomanD' Karting

    Nov 5, 2012
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    Definitely great practical points.

    Ross, where you got lumbar support from? Anything in Europe?

    I will be looking to source a car via a reputable dealer to start with, DK being at the top of the list.

    Re storage, since I'm away most of the time, I would only leave the car at specialised storage where it can be taken care of or shipped from. DK or Windrush being obvious options.

    Re mods, I absolutely hate riced cars in a way of of LM coversions, stripy paintjobs etc. But I will defenitely have a look at reversable bolt-on mods that boost real world usability without messing with the visuals. DK seems to be working on carbon-ceramic brakes and headlamp upgade, will investigate into it.

    Thank you for your input.
     
  20. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior
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    Mar 11, 2013
    573
    Keep it bone stock IMO. Feel it the way it was meant to be felt. Spend the money restoring anything needing to be returned to stock or needing rebuilding. As a street car everything is more than adequate as-is and the next owner will appreciate it more.
     
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  21. 275GTB

    275GTB Formula 3

    Jan 12, 2010
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    Roman F40's came with 3 different weaves/shades of red seat material used over the period of production - no one really notices unless you have two or three different seats next to each other. But if you are going to add a lumbar cushion, then you want it in the correct weave/shade to match your seats. I have a source of all 3 materials and an expert upholsterer to do the work for you, when you are ready I will point you his way.
     
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  22. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #47 joe sackey, May 20, 2020
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
    Well-said.

    If you are in the UK, I do recommend DK Engineering as they are the full resource for these with longterm experience, they maintain them and often have great examples for sale, and when they don't have exactly what you want, James C can probably find it.

    If you must have an F40 for any reason or purpose, here's my professional perspective as an independent entity who specializes in them. In the past decade we have sold around forty (40) F40s, meaning we've touched/inspected/done due-diligence on at least 3 times that number, the net result of that collective longterm experience is the following:

    Avoid F40s that have been modified in any way, except perhaps a sports exhaust, and even in that case the original unit absolutely must come with the car, bearing in mind that if you do a cross-continental trip, you'd want the quieter unit. Avoid cars that have had wheels, brakes, turbo and body mods. Avoid color-changed F40s at all costs. Most especially avoid modified F40s that are presented by sellers who insist that it can easily be returned to stock, yet haven't bothered to do same prior to trying to sell.

    Do not be persuaded that cars which are modified work better, this sentiment usually comes from those unfamiliar with how a standard well-maintained F40 can and should operate, of course, we can't all have the pleasure of having Dario Benuzzi demonstrate what a bone stock F40 can do around Fiorano, but James C at DK Engineering will be happy to oblige similarly. In my experience, F40 mods themselves are almost always a compromise of sorts which re-engineer the car's optimum settings, are often executed poorly, and therefore often make the car unreliable.

    An unmodified F40 whose previous owner has spent the money on actually maintaining the car itself (as opposed to spending it on mods yet neglecting basic maintenance) will not only be more reliable, it will be more satisfying from an ownership standpoint, and it will always be more valuable than a modded F40. The latter is the bottom line and it really matters as these are million dollar cars as opposed to 100k cars. The simple age-old adage of "Find the best example you can and buy that one" will always serve you best.

    Don't be discouraged by the guidelines I recommend, in fact they are easy to follow because they made over 1,300 F40s, of which at least 1,100 are the European/ROW variant which you probably want, and even though many have been bastardized and or suffered automotive vandalism, there are still many that have been nicely preserved and meticulously maintained. Again I don't think DK will have much trouble procuring a pristine example.

    Good luck with this noble adventure!
     
  23. ibesuc

    ibesuc Formula Junior

    Jun 16, 2009
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    #48 ibesuc, May 20, 2020
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
    For what it's worth, Harry Metcalfe thinks the CGT is currently the better buy over an F40 and places it second to only the McLaren F1.




    ^skip to 14:25 for CGT and 16:20 for his comment about the F40.
     
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  24. RomanD'

    RomanD' Karting

    Nov 5, 2012
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    Thanks a lot for your input.

    Point taken re moded cars but buying was never something I would look into.

    Will report on adventure results once the time come :)
     
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  25. RomanD'

    RomanD' Karting

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    I think Harry has a strong bias towards inherently fluid cars. I drove both cars and I love them both but they are different to an extent that it makes sense to own both. The purpose of the thread was to figure out which one would fit my current situation better, since unfortunately I can't afford F40 and CGT in one go :)
     

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