F12 vs 812SF as a potential long-term investment

Both will fall more short term. Either could be worth something more long term.

 

The 812 is a demonstrably better car in every key performance category. The F12 has a legion of fans than greatly prefer its visual style. In 10-20 years, that battle line might still be well formed. Personally, I voted with my wallet. I traded my F12, for an 812 and suffered the indignity of the massive price walk. I felt good about that decision at the time, and I feel even better now.

 

I would only consider a TDF as a long term investment play (and maybe the upcoming VS for the 812).

The regular models, F12 or 812, I don't think are really that good in terms of long term investment, especially after you take into consideration the costs of upkeep, insurance, and the opportunity cost of parking your money in a regular production model Ferrari.

 

As an investment 'in your driving enjoyment', if you can make it happen, the 812 will, by all accounts, be a keeper and all related expenses of ownership will simply be the cost of the ticket to ride

Otherwise, remember, in the USA, 812SF production has been limited by 50%. USA Dealers only received 50% of their expected allocations while the EU and China were over-produced by the factory to sell as many as possible into those area before emissions regulations make it more expensive or impossible.

The result, compared to the F12 where it is understood that 2,200 (or so) were made, is far fewer 812SFs have been produced thus far for the USA.

And now, with demand greatly reduced for the past 12+ months due to SF90 reveal (where it is documented 812 order queue to factory allocation went from 18 months to immediate), it appears extremely likely that 812SF production for USA will be less than half that of the F12 (not including the 812GTS), making the 812SF more rare than the F12.

Long term value outlook would then appear to benefit the 812SF vs F12 regardless of anything else, simply fewer available.

And, if Ferrari stops making V12s in regular production or adds on "boost" functions/makes other substantial changes to the V12 family; That is, nothing replaces the 812 (like for like that is) then, for those that desire such a car, it will be last of its kind, probably the best "unassisted" V12 they will ever make, might not take 20 years to recover value...

 

I predict the one that will be more desirable in 10-20 years will be identical to the one which is more desirable now and for the same reasons. Clear enough?

 

I think looking at these cars as long term investments is crazy. I'm planning on holding on to my 812SF but not as an investment, as a vehicle to enjoy. The V12 world isn't going to be around for long and I want one in the garage.

Now if you are straight up trying to make money on the deal the F12s are simply available cheaper now. I've owned both and I simply prefer to own the 812 even with it's higher cost.

 

I cannot see how either car will be an investment in the future. Both are great ownership propositions, I have a preference for the 812 as a much more cohesive car, but I would happily keep either one.
If you want a car that will hold its value, the upcoming 812 VS Aperta will be a safe bet


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Investment in fun

I’ve had two F12s and now and 812. Both amazing cars. 812 is probably a better car all around. F12 was certainly more raw.





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Exactly. The term "investment" is relative to the forms of "return." Fun/enjoyment being chief among them.

 

I took “investment” to mean “worth more money”. Everyone should know that modern cars make for horrible investments compared to just about every other asset class other than maybe cash.

 

New exotic could lose 30% in a year. Cash doesn't do that unless you look at opportunity cost which is also added to the car devaluation. Point is not much worse 'investment' than modern exotic cars except maybe boats.

 

Value is well beyond dollars and cents, or euros and cents or whatever currency you have. Frankly I think the investment is in the currency of happiness and pride of ownership. For most, that will pay off more than the financial return. Unused metal is worthless for the most part, asides from art appeal in your garage. Using it multiplies value x-fold.

 

F12

 

I took this thought exercise to be over a 10-20 year period. In that time frame, with the Fed pumping the way it’s pumping, I figured that exotic car ownership might well be flat with cash in terms of relative performance in today dollars. I might be wrong. I kind of suck at economics. I’m decent at making money, decent at keeping money, but horrible at money related predictions.

But yes, modern exotic cars are horrible investments, perhaps even worse than cash.

 

I hear you.

 

At least that is what I tell myself as I continue to shift cash from the bank into various cars...

 

If you are planning on owning and driving the car all that time, the 812 would definitely be the better choice. You get a better car in every way, looks, performance and technology. The updated steering wheel and driving interfaces are easy to use and easier to see while driving without the distraction of a console screen. The additional driver assistance features like surround view, adaptive cruise control, lane warning and blind spot monitoring are as good as they were in our 2018 AMG GTC roadster. Those features are not available in the F12 and they are increasingly needed in today's traffic. I find the cameras to be excellent for parking but on my 488 and Cali T, the single backup camera was crap. That is what you have on the F12.

I should say that I have not driven nor owned the F12 but I have owned a 2017 Cali T and 2018 488 so I have plenty of experience with the previous generation of driver interfaces and they are not as good as the 812 or Portofino. I would think that the 812 is going to be rarer and a better car to own but I am of course biased.

 

The driver assistance features are only available on the 2020 812S as an option and probably rarely ordered. The 812GTS has By far the best chance of being collectible. If the 812S replacement is an ICE V12 like the current car then they won’t be collectible. The F12 Is a Pininfarina the 812S isn’t.

 

Its hard to make the comparison with the 550/575 because most 575s were ordered with the F1 transmission- cutting edge technology at the time- but today, its so outdated, and I think the market prefers the more involving manual transmission of the 550.

812 GTS complicates the matter. In the end there might be more 812 GTS than SF. Hard to know right now.

My guess is they will all follow about the same path. For those who want the looks, most will go for the F12. For those who want the sound and the performance, they will go for the 812 SF. For those who want the open air experience, they have the GTS.

Get the best example you can afford and will make you happy.

 

I bet in 20 years the F12 will be more desirable simply because of the beauty and rawness. I believe the cars will become faster, more comfortable, and easier to drive just like the 812 is over the F12. And I think that will be less desirable in the future.

Look at the manual gated gearbox vs F1 then dual clutch. A solid technological progression. Yet where is the collector money going?

 

The F12 is a better looking car than the 812 coupe in my eyes but looks are always subjective. You can’t compare the electronics on a Cali t to those in an F12. The F12 is the flagship car and I’d argue the interface is very similar to the 812. In terms of drivers assistance, a camera is nice but the F12 should have that. I also like the way the F12 feels and sounds.

According to my dealer there is a cut off date after which no new 812 GTS orders will be possible for the entire production period and as of now HQ has agreed to build approximately 1800-2000 cars. It will probably be more rare than the coupe but anything is possible.

There are going to be 812, 812 VS. I don’t know the number of the 812 aperta but supposedly 200-270.

IMO, right now the smart buy is an F12 or an 812 GTS unless you're one of the lucky few who have a shot at the VS or VS aperta.

 

I think you should take a look at cars with the surround view package before commenting on how that compares to the single camera in the F12 that is basically a straight view from behind with sensors that miss obstructions. I had to replace a fin on my 488 diffuser because the parking sensors are set too high to alert on things like parking stops and planters. I was backing up and using the camera but it was worthless as were the sensors. That cost me $1700 to have repaired. Fortunately the diffuser fins are replaceable items.

With the surround view and improved sensors that use K-band radar you don't have any doubts as to where you are or what is in your way. There is a top view, forward view and back view. The cameras show you where the obstructions are. One of the hardest things to do was to park my 488 because you sit so low in the car and have such poor visibility out the back even with the top down. Our Portofino has the same electronics and so did the AMG GTC roadster. It's far better than what's in the F12 which was first released in 2013. Flagship or otherwise all of the electronics is far superior on the 812 compared to the F12 due to 6 years of technological advances. The layout of the screens is similar but not the functionality or visibility and resolution. The new steering wheel is better as well with the horn back where it should be. The displays are superior, the sensing technology is vastly improved and expanded. In addition, for earlier years, the backup camera and parking sensors were options on the F12 not often selected so even being able to find one with these features isn't a given.

For regular driving, the 812 coupe or GTS is the clear winner and also it will be in all performance categories as well. Now obviously over time the latter are not as important but I think the driver conveniences and interfaces will be. This is exactly why I bought a new 812 instead of a used F12 for a lot less money, better car, all around.