F12 GTO?

Love these slides. Great illustration of how and why you tune the ICE differently when you also have an electric engine on board.

Now all we have to do is figure out how to make electric batteries really light, and we will have another a revolution in possible high-end performance!

 

Zaius,

I think you would just hate the true unvarnished character of a 599GTO. IMHO the GTO is EXACTLY what you describe. Specifically, a less plush interior (ie. no carpeting), excessive road noise (massive low profile tires), clunky tranny (single clutch) and creaking suspension (setup for the track more than cruising the boulevard). What are other terms to characterize the GTO personality ? I'd also add she is soulful, spiritual, unrefined, natural and unprocessed. Maybe even "crude" compared to an F12. Tifosi on this side of the pond do employ words other than "rawness" or "excitement" but with respect to the GTO those terms really are 100% accurate

 

Now that we have the real figures for the FXXK, it would appear any thoughts of another 200HP to come from the F12's motor was, as I suspected, something of a dream and in reality it is more like 110+ and that with the Electric motors to fill in the probably substantial torque gap. hence, as already suggested on this thread, any HGTE will have little scope for extra HP, not that it is really needed.

 

Perhaps there is something more left in that monster V12 (like a 10.000 RPM red line for example with the appropriate modifications for another 50 HP) but that would be reserved for the LaFerrari FXX K Evo. The F12 GTO will get a mild power bump, if any. The engine hierarchy is clear: FXX K > LaFerrari > F12 "GTO".

 

I quite like that the 599 GTO is ok as the engine derives from the XX programme, yet the same engine in the F12... Hmmm

Anyway, it is not going to be an HGTE pack F12 with stiffer suspension, louder exhaust and new wheels if, but more like when , it comes.

40 to 50 bhp would not be a shock, and some clever work on the suspension and drivability with rapid input responses. Basically, what Ferrari always does. Something that makes one of the best cars even better. CS, Scud, GTO , Speciale . They have a good record in this area. The Aventador will be due an update too. These cars will not be so far off 800 bhp will they.

I would agree that it is unlikely to be called a GTO. Maybe in the next F12 iteration as others suggested in between the hyper cars.

The last Ferrari V12 that really raced was the 550 (Prodrive but not factory approved) and 575 GTC. They missed a real GTO trick there...... Or the Maserati MC12.

 

The MC12 was .. an Enzo GTO.(=homologated to race) And did very well in GT1.

Btw. The GT-class 550 was my favorite Ferrari V12 racer. What a car.

 

Back when Luca was in charge (seems like a long time ago), Ferrari announced an eight year model release strategy. Four years as the standard issue and then four years as the M version with a new model released every year (combined across all models). There was also a statement that there would be a very special version of the F12 at the end of the series (which I believe to be the limited production +100HP increased output). The F12 started in 2013 so, if the announcement was accurate and Sergio does not change it, then the M version (suspension/brakes/SW/freshened styling/small HP increase) will be in model year 2016 with the last model year being 2020.

I believe you seem to have insight into Ferrari workings, why do you say roughly 2.5 to 3 years left in the series?

 

The M version is the F12 replacement, just like the M version of the 458 is the turbocharged successor.

 

I made that particular comment 18 months ago, before the new 5 year plan was announced. Also, I find it highly unlikely based on my experience with Ferrari that any production F12 should receive over 800 hp.

Regarding your comment concerning my insight to Ferrari workings - sometimes I know more, sometimes I don't. With that being said, there are many users here with far better connections and insight than me.

 

I don't think so. The F12 was an all new model in 2013. I think the M is just the HGTE package with minor HP increase that will run for four more years. Then the all new F12 will come but first a special run of the F12 (dare I say) GTO. Just my guess.

 

The HGTE package was the 599's "M" so to speak.

 

Yes. That's why I think the M for the F12 will be an HGTE as well. Then the new model.

 

The "new" F12 coming next (2016) is an M. The F12 platform will run until 2020 when it is fully replaced, unless there are changes to the 5 year plan.

Without any F12XX or F12 racer we won't see a car sporting the GTO moniker, but they'll certainly have something special in store as a grand finale.

 

Completely agree. I also think there will be more one offs in the $2M range based on the F12 as they have been doing with the F60, TRS, F12 SP America, etc.
Do you think the 2016 upgrade will have new body panels and/or a touch screen in the dash?

 

The 2016 will most certainly receive CarPlay. Yes it will feature a new design.

They are making more SP's and there is an increase in Tailor Made orders. Tailor Made is very clever, because not only does it increase options for the clients = increases revenue. It also has the rather positive side effect of hooking clients onto the idea of an SP - something they may initially have considered dauting, when in reality it's probably the best experince you can ever have as a car and Ferrari enthusiast. Ferrari has proven that an SP's can be subtle, like the SP America, or all out like the F12 TRS or SP FFX.

I believe the general increase in SP's is more towards the subtle designs rather than the extremities. People who want distinctive, but personal, yet not exuberant designs

 

Thank you, sir. You have more information than my Ferrari affiliate. I have in-depth experience with telematics units (from an engineering perspective) and IMO boxes like CarPlay take away from the analog nature of the car both aesthetically as well as detract from the driving experience. I guess the current crop of buyers love gadgets and can't put them down even while driving an F12. We must be careful what we wish for.

The new design is also kind of scary. Don't know if you could "suggest" what changes are being talked about or not. Minimal/extreme? I would think that this is now an internal design and not Pininfarina. I just love the present incarnation and really would hate to see it with all sorts of gills and flaps. I think the aero-bridge will likely go or be modified heavily. Same with the front area. It's looking like the Lucca-era F12s will remain distinctive. Comparatively, not very many of them in the US. I am told there were only a few 2013's that made it to each US dealer in that first year.

The increase in Tailor Made doesn't surprise me. Ferrari takes full advantage of the buying experience and the revenue it brings. My wife and I are always talking about the thrill of the factory build but the wait is so long. Maybe under Sergio there will be increased allocations but the new design may not be worth the wait.

An increase in SP's is very interesting but I guess not so surprising. At $2-$4M a pop you've really got to want to have it your way. But there is a lot of wealth out there (especially in emerging markets) so this would address that need pretty well. Just a nip here or a tuck there and - presto -you're as special as Eric Clapton.

 

Here's a rumor from rennteam about the f12 "gto" variant:


It's coming...... with a startling power output and some trick tech.

I do have figures for the current approximate weight loss and the power output but cannot post them I'm afraid. The car is still very much a work in progress so spec's are not finalised and it may even be held back until closer the end of the F12s current life cycle. This would make room to bring out an HGTE style version before it as happened with the 599.

 

For the ''GTO'' version I'm confident it'll be the usual 100KG (claimed) weight loss + some horse power. In this case It'll probably 760hp.

 

I highly doubt it'll just be 760hp. The Aventador SV is set to debut with around 760. The F12 has always been higher by around 30 so imho I think Ferrari will be aiming for a mind blowing 800hp which is very possible with the current V12 engine. A simple ecu and exhaust mod can get it to around 770-780hp so with a couple piston changes etc, it can easily achieve 800hp. The weight loss though will definetly be around 100kg. Maybe even implement a kers unit? And more active aero?

 

You can well be right. I don't think it'll have KERS, they need that for the F12 replacement.

The reason why I said 760bhp is simple:

the F12 replacement might have KERS (around 100hp?) and the F12 engine with a bit more hp. If they go with the full 800 for the ''GTO'' the F12 replacement will have well over 900hp...which is frankly insane!

 

Which quite frankly would be lovely to have

 

Does anyone have a factory source validating production of a "GTO"? All I know is that there is an M on the way.

The HP discussion is interesting, where will it stop?

 

And an M is suppose to be what ? A twin turbo v12 makes no sense..

 

It never stops. The business keeps going.

I have no doubt an M is coming and I have a good idea they will do an end of model special. Why? Simple: too much money available for the sales of these vehicles. And while Ferrari was a cash machine before, it has to be even more so now. I'm sure it will be excellent.

No turbos for V12 for the next few years at least. Ferrari has said this in various interviews. They've stated basically to get the turbos to give the kind of power and response they require they would need 4 turbos and that would require too much cooling equipment. My wild guess is M will not have much power bump. Special model probably gets a little more.

 

The inflation in HP will stop somewhere.

The 599 GTO was based upon the 599XX and built for that reason as an "homologation". What car will the F12 "GTO" pay homage to? There is certainly no F12XX coming. If the car will happen, it will simply be a "Speciale" version without any specific purpose or lineage.