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F1 2022 - News/Regulation change/Developments

Discussion in 'F1' started by DF1, Sep 19, 2020.

  1. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Villeneuve with his predictions for now:

    Mercedes has been the dominant team in Formula 1 since the introduction of Hybrid engines. Ferrari, in particular, seemed to be able to do something about this in 2017 and 2018, but they have fallen back a long way. Jacques Villeneuve believes that this dominance will continue for some time.



    Teams such as Ferrari, but also Renault, have openly admitted that they are particularly committed to the new regulations for 2022 in order to make a leap forward and possibly fight for the world title again. Villeneuve believes, however, that little will change in the coming years.


    Designers do not have enough freedom
    "As long as F1 remains a hybrid formula, it will be almost impossible for competitors to get close to Mercedes. Not only do they have the best car, but with Lewis Hamilton they also have the best driver," said Villeneuve to La Stampa.


    The fact that the cars will look completely different before 2022 is not going to have much effect either, according to the 1997 World Champion. These new regulations restrict the freedom of designers to such an extent that the current ranking will not be shaken much. According to Villeneuve, this is not what the new regulations are intended for.

    https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/68618/villeneuve-mercedes-has-the-best-car-but-with-hamilton-also-the-best-driver-.html?campname=highlighted-content&camplink=onderaan
     
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  3. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    There is a 25 page thread that is predisposed to disagree with this statement (from Villeneuve)
     
  4. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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  5. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Opinion - we have them to share lol :)
     
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  7. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    375+ likes this.
  8. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    Nïeve!

    It could also be split $40m and $-10m for a pay driver and a WDC.
     
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  9. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    I find that proposal ridiculous, to say the least.

    How can F1 drivers be forced to accept lower pay than some footballers, golfers, tennis players, etc ... ?
     
  10. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    :D:D
     
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  12. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
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  13. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/153298/fia-bans-3d-cameras-as-part-of-f1-car-copying-clampdown

    Formula 1 teams will be banned from using 3D cameras and complex software systems to copy rival designs, as rules preventing a repeat of the 'Pink Mercedes' controversy are revealed.

    Racing Point's actions in cloning last year's Mercedes W10 caused controversy earlier this year, with rivals unhappy that the Silverstone-based outfit had gained such an advantage by copying a rival car.

    Following a protest from Renault, Racing Point was found guilty of having illegally used Mercedes' design IP with its rear brake ducts. The team was fined 400,000 Euro and docked 15 constructors' championship points for its actions.

    Amid concerns that Racing Point's tactics could open the door for other teams to be forced to go down a copycat route to be successful, the FIA moved to come up with regulations that would prevent that happening.

    The FIA's head of single-seater matters Nikolas Tombazis said at the time: "This will prevent teams from using extensive part of photos to copy whole portions of other cars in the way that Racing Point has done.

    "We will still accept individual components to be copied in local areas, but we don't want the whole car to be fundamentally a copy of another car."

    The new technical regulations have been revealed and explain in detail that teams will no longer be allowed to share IP with another outfit, or 'reverse engineer' rival designs for those listed parts that it must create itself.

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    The rules make clear that teams can be 'influenced by the design or concept of a competitor's' design.

    However, they can only do so 'using information that must potentially be available to all competitors' and such knowledge can only be gained at race and test events, so no work on this front can be done away from the track.

    To prevent teams from reverse engineering rival designs, the FIA has imposed strict bans on a number of actions that have been open to teams previously.

    The FIA states that teams will not be allowed:

    a. The use of photographs or images, combined with software that converts them to point clouds, curves, surfaces, or allows CAD geometry to be overlaid onto or extracted from the photograph or image

    b. The use of stereophotogrammetry, 3D cameras or any 3D stereoscopic techniques

    c. Any form of contact or non-contact surface scanning

    d. Any technique that projects points or curves on a surface so as to facilitate the reverse-engineering process

    If there are occasions where there are big similarities between listed components on different cars, the FIA has to right to investigate the matter and will ask teams to prove that the design was done independently.

    The regulations state: "It will be the role of the FIA to determine whether this resemblance is the result of reverse engineering or of legitimate independent work."

    Teams will be asked to provide data and information to prove that they have complied with the rules and designed components themselves from scratch.

    While Racing Point's 2020 design was in breach of the regulations, and will be used again next year, the FIA says that there will be a cut off point for judging if components were reverse engineered - so the outfit will not need to change things for next season.
     
  14. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    That’s not gonna help stop anything as long as the two teams are complicit like Merc and RP are. As proved they can do as they like behind closed doors, at least until most other teams protest it, and even then pretty much nothing happens.
     
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  15. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

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    Well, in America they have salary caps in many series, it's nothing revolutionary.
     
  16. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    I wonder who benefits from it.
     
  17. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

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    In a basketball team, the salaries of the players are a big chunk of the budget. I suppose it makes some sense.

    In F1 not so much, specially now that the whole team has a budget cap and the days of wine and roses are over.
     
  18. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

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    So if two teams come to the same conclusion on a optimum shape / design for say the front wing, one has to concede position and adopt a inferior design......otherwise it will construed as copying ! Am i missing something?
     
  19. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
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    Unlikely, because the front wing has to work with the rest of the aero (especially the underbody) and chassis (for optimal results).
     
  20. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oh lets help the Poor RedBull. Total capitulation.............

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/153787/ferrari-now-in-favour-of-2022-engine-freeze

    Ferrari is now in favour of a Formula 1 engine development freeze from 2022 after agreeing to bring forward the introduction of the new power units to 2025.

    F1 has been discussing the possibility of an engine development freeze after next year in recent weeks following Honda's decision to quit the series at the end of 2021.

    Current customers Red Bull and AlphaTauri are keen to continue using the Honda power units beyond 2021 by taking on the IP and rights, but stressed it would not be able to fund future development, thus requiring a freeze.

    Although Mercedes has always been in favour of the engine freeze, both Ferrari and Renault previously said they would not support such a move, with Ferrari CEO Louis C. Camilleri saying it was "against the spirit of F1".

    But Ferrari has now changed position following recent talks with F1, the FIA and its fellow power unit manufacturers.

    Team principal Mattia Binotto confirmed on Friday that Ferrari would now back the engine freeze, having also agreed that F1's next-generation power unit would be introduced one year earlier than planned, brought forward from 2026 to 2025.

    "I think what we said is there are already regulations in place where somehow Red Bull has got a solution, they may be supplied by other manufacturers, that's no doubt," Binotto said when asked by Autosport if Ferrari's position had changed.

    "We understand as well their intention to keep using their Honda engine for the future. We had meetings in the last days with F1 and the FIA. I think as Ferrari, we understand the situation.

    "We are supportive in trying to anticipate by one season, one year, the freezing of the engines, because that would mean as well trying to anticipate to 2025 the new regulations for the power units.

    "Knowing the situation and understanding the situation, it's not the first time that Ferrari is acting in a responsible way in that respect.

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    "So we will support freezing, by anticipating by one year the engines, the power unit."

    The change in stance from Ferrari paves the way for an engine freeze to be introduced in 2022, lasting for three years until the new power units come into play.

    But Binotto said talks were ongoing to ensure there was proper engine convergence between the manufacturers ahead of the freeze to ensure there are no huge gaps in performance.

    "Talks are ongoing moment with the FIA, with F1, if we should consider a mechanism of engine convergence, if there is any situation where eventually a manufacturer is really down on performance compared to the others," Binotto said.

    "Because then it's freezing for three years the relative performance between manufacturers. I think those details will be important."

    Binotto said the incoming regulations brought forward by one year to 2025 would result in "quite a different power unit" to the one currently used, but that clarity on its technical make-up was required by the middle of 2021.

    "To have a brand new format of power unit in 2025, we will need by the middle of next year clarity on the regulations," Binotto said.

    "I think it will be quite a different power unit to today, because I think there are, at least from the Ferrari point of view, important objectives that need to be set, as for example quite a different cost.

    "It has to be more sustainable in terms of a cost point of view. I think the power unit should cost 50% what we are affording today. In order to achieve that, I think in order to decide what will be the technical format, it is somehow very difficult exercise.

    "I think as well from the sustainability, so carbon footprint point of view, we have to set our objective which ahas to be very ambitious.

    "We need to be very proactive but also collaborative between manufacturers, F1 and the FIA in order to progress very soon on the regulations.

    "That will define the future of F1 from 2025 to 2030."
     
  21. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    It is no longer F1...................sad............
     
  22. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Rookie

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    Perhaps our PU next year is a monster ?
     
  23. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    We must hope significant is made!
     
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  24. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Rookie
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  25. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    Based on that link, and based on when Schumacher was dropped from Ferrari, F1 went off track in 2004-6........
     
  26. PerKr

    PerKr Formula Junior

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    Just ridiculous. Copying more successful cars from previous seasons may be the best chance many teams have at being competitive. With teams like Williams seemingly getting everything wrong in the last few seasons wouldn't it have been great if they could have done what Racing Point did? Or if Ferrari had been able to do something similar? Or any other team? This just makes it so that a team that gets it right is guaranteed dominance for a few seasons. Why not instead stipulate a number of components that all teams must make publicly available at the end of the season?
     
  27. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Good to see this. NO freeze to simply help RedBull. Sorry RedBull you do not deserve special treatment. Very sorry Ferrari now think a freeze is a good idea.

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/153801/renault-too-late-to-impose-engine-freeze-before-2022

    Renault believes it is "too late" to impose a Formula 1 engine freeze from the start of 2022, despite growing support for one from rival teams.

    With Red Bull eager for a stop to engine development being allowed from the end of next year so it can take over the Honda engine project, talks have been held between teams and the FIA to discuss the situation.

    And while Ferrari has indicated that it would be willing to accept a freeze if a new engine formula is brought forward to 2025, Renault says the situation is not so clear cut.

    With the French car manufacturer's own push for a freeze from 2022 having been blocked by Red Bull last year, it has invested heavily in developing an all-new engine for that season.

    While it is not totally against the idea of a freeze ahead of new engine regulations coming in, it says the programme it has mapped out for powerunit development over the next few years would not work if a freeze happened before the start of 2022.

    "We're not opposed to this as long as it's the right calendar," said Renault executive director Marcin Budkowski. "So the regulations as they are set today, until they are changed, is with severely restricted development from 2023.

    "It's almost akin to a freeze, because there's no more development allowed on ICE and ERS from 2023 and a new set of regulations is coming in 2026.

    "I think there's a lot of talk about anticipating these regulations by one year, which I think for Formula 1 can make sense if we find the right set of regulations, and potentially a better set of regulations than now. And then I'd say you have to freeze at some point in 2022.
     

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