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Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by T308, Oct 27, 2014.
Bonhams : Chassis no. 09079 Engine no. 09079 (Internal no. 1116/64)
Should be interesting.
Once owned by my friend Jim Wallace, who sub-rented space in a large building for his resto shop. An employee of the landlord left a space heater on overnight, which caused the building to burn. This car was left as a body-less hulk; Jim was just heart-broken. Great to see that it has been brought back from the dead, but I wonder how that history will affect the price?
As you may know, I had one of these for a while, and my wife still goads me occasionally for getting rid of it, as it was one of her faves. Mine, too. Completely drivable, but very racy at the same time.
Here is a video of the 275 GTB/C Filipinetti.
Bonhams : Ferrari 275GTB Featured in upcoming Scottsdale sale!
if this history is properly disclosed, it will have influence. The car will have a completely new body and who knows whatelse is replaced. But then again, being burned to the ground didn't hurt 250 TR 0666 much.
History of 09079 is very well known and nobody is holding back anything. Yes, of course, it was rebodied. Many race cars went thru a rebody. But it was rebodied by exactly the same people who initially built the car (Egidio (father) and Roberto (son) Brandoli in Italy, formerly of Carrozzeria Scaglietti in Modena). So, please, NO paranoia and no b.s. this time. The car is good with great and multiple Le Mans history. Absolutely continuous ownership history, no law suits, nothing. Perfect restoration.
All it needs is a new owner.
If the Mcqueen is a $10m car, then this is what? $12m? $15m?
To me, the 90xx cars are far, far superior to a standard 275 GTB of any other type. But the McQueen name seems to excite a lot of people, so who knows? I'm guessing that Andrew is in the ball park. And as usual, I don't disagree with Marcel, and didn't intend to open the proverbial can of worms. I just couldn't resist making mention of the fire, as I was the first person Jim called, and still remember wading through the slush and mud in my best shoes. Jim had a small biz of restoring Sunbeam Tigers, and a lot of customer cars went to heaven that same night. I guess that's why God made insurance.
That is all fine and well but don't you think potential buyers would have prefered if the car never got trapped in a burning building and that this will reflect in the price?
Did this car recently NS at the RM auction or was that a different one?
Wasn't there some complaint about the shape of the the body vs. the original?
I agree that MANY race cars had difficult lives and personally I think all that matters is full disclosure but I agree the degree of difficulty a car encountered effects it's price but as time goes by I think that lessens.
For example the recent 250 GTO auction was at about 1/2 of what a perfect one might bring.
At one time IMO it would have been at 1/3.
Thanks for describing what you remember happening. History from someone who was there is often lost in the fog of time and often glossed over by sellers.
I also think the context of the difficulties might play a part. For instance 2735GT loosing it's original body in a crash is different to losing the body in a burning building, far from the racetrack.
The story's less romantic but the effect is the same isn't it?
This car is incredible.
Post the re-body & restoration Brandoli work performed in 1985-1987 an exceptional ground up exacting re-restoration to original correct Le Mans winning specifications (including body shape and all mechanicals) was performed in 2006 under the direction of Richard Freshman/Fossil Motorsports. That restoration resulted in a 2nd in the Ferrari Completion Class M-2 at Pebble Beach in 06 narrowly losing to the ex Betz and Peters John Shirley TR 666.
Funny that those two should take 1 and 2 at Pebble.
A period prang by Bandini is a bit different than a years later event caused by an errant space heater.
You are absolutely correct. Damage is damage. Makes no difference if the damage occurred in a race, fell off the road, or fell off a truck day one or twenty years later. Replacement is replacement. It is no longer original, that is the bottom line and the current market does not seem to care about it very seriously or discount it all that much. Example: No race history, fire trashed, resurrected, re-bodied and triple restored LM 6045 sells for 11+ Mil. RM Monterey August 2014.
"No race history" is key here. I believe when it comes to competitioncars, it is very relevant whether or not the damage occured during it's competitionlife or afterwards.
I have no idea how any of this will reflect on 9079, but I don't buy the notion that it doesn't really matter when a historically important competitioncar goes down in flames while parked in some warehouse, just because it is not unheard of for a competitioncar to receive a new body.
The history is different and history certainly adds to value but if the car was re bodied by the same outfit that would have done it in period how different is the end product?
Rules have changed since then
Results would be different today
In my humble opinion, history is part of any car, or collectible object. It can add value, especially with competition cars.
Here's how I look at it:
Private first class Scarelli was killed July 1944 while holding off a platoon of enemy soldiers in St. Lo., wounded in the head, shoulder and leg, he kept the enemy at bay while his fellow soldiers escaped harm.
Private first class Scarelli was killed by a passing bus July 1944.
Usually the story of "fate" maters, sometimes not.
A wonderful car with full disclosure, I'd be proud to have it.
Public sale auction results, Ferrari Classiche Red Book issuing results and FCA show results (LM 6045 La Coppa Per Dodici Cilindri at Cavallino 2014 and Cris Cox re-bodied Ferrari 250 GTO 3445 Best of Show FCA International Meet & Concours, Corning & Watkins Glen August/September 2002) so far don't agree with that line of opinion. Only the Scottsdale auction results for 9079 will be relevant. Everything else is just speculation.
That was in 2007, not 2002. Correct spelling is C-H-R-I-S.
The market on the 250GTO is downright crazy. Nothing seems to stick in terms of a negative influence on the value. People just want a 250 GTO.
And indeed, it is all speculation. I haven't said otherwise.