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ENFORCEMENT OF RULES IN F1 FORUM

Discussion in 'F1' started by El Wayne, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 1, 2002
    17,972
    San Marino, CA
    Full Name:
    L. Wayne Ausbrooks
    The same adult behavior and respect for fellow users is expected here in the F1 forum as in the other F-Chat forums and the standard forum rules of conduct apply.

    Beginning today, however, enforcement of these rules will be different here until the moderators feel that harmony in the F1 forum has been restored. Going forward, and until further notice, the rules in this forum will be enforced as follows:

    - There will be no further warnings. This notice serves as a first and final warning to all.

    - 1st offense for personal attack/insult or trolling in the F1 forum: 1 month ban from F-Chat.

    - 2nd offense for personal attack/insult or trolling in the F1 forum: 3 month ban from F-Chat.

    - 3rd offense for personal attack/insult or trolling in the F1 forum: permanent ban from F1 forum.

    - Attack on moderator(s) who are working to implement these rules and clean up the F1 forum: Moderator discretion, up to and including permanent ban from either F1 forum or F-Chat as a whole.

    TROLLING:
    Making meaningless posts with the intention of starting a dispute or disrupting the peace and harmony of this site is TROLLING and will NOT be tolerated.

    Derailing threads by steering a discussion away from the original topic and onto a controversial topic with the intention of starting a dispute or disrupting the harmony of the site is TROLLING and will NOT be tolerated.

    "Piling-on", or acting as a group to disparage a user who has expressed a contrarian point of view (their love and loyalty for an unpopular driver/team, for example) with the intent of silencing that user or running that user out of the F1 forum is TROLLING and will NOT be tolerated.

    Intentionally teasing or provoking other users in order "get a rise out of them", thereby disrupting the harmony of this site is TROLLING and will NOT be tolerated.

    "IGNORE" FEATURE:
    If you are incapable of ignoring posts by people whom you dislike or with whom you frequently disagree, then use the "ignore" feature.

    REPORTING POSTS:
    If you encounter a post that you feel was made in violation of the rules, REPORT IT. Do NOT quote the post or respond in kind. Doing so may result disciplinary action against you.

    Understand that not every post that you dislike or disagree with will be deemed a violation of the rules. Four moderators and the site administrator will be monitoring post reports from this forum carefully. If you have reported a post and yet no apparent action was taken, then the five of us have determined that the reported activity did not constitute a rules violation. This does not, however, mean that we aren't tracking posts made by that user for a possible pattern of behavior that might constitute trolling.
     
    Ray Smith likes this.
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  3. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Moderator
    Moderator

    Oct 1, 2008
    32,711
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    Andrew
    Clarification: note that the above also applies to signatures. Please check yours now to ensure it is not provocative or disrespectful towards other F1 contributors.

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  4. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Moderator
    Moderator

    Oct 1, 2008
    32,711
    Huntsville, AL., USA
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    With the start of the new season generally going well for decorum in the F1 forum, the mod team is happy to announce the following:

    1. Ban tallies for everyone are reset back to zero.That means that nobody's sitting at the strike-2-and-one-more-is-a-permaban position.

    2. Fixed ban lengths are suspended, although can be brought back into effect if significant problems arise due to this relaxation. Each individual offence will be addressed at the discretion of the attending moderator.

    3. Aside from those two aforementioned exceptions, the ruleset in this thread remains in full effect.


    It is my great hope that we can preserve the positive atmosphere that everyone has recently been enjoying without having to maintain the threat of huge bans. Please be respectful and let's relax a bit.

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  5. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Moderator
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    Oct 1, 2008
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    Andrew
    Please use the forum's built-in mechanism for all reports by hitting the /!\ button in the top right of the offending post - all assigned moderators will then get the same email alert to look into it.

    There's no guarantee that we'll see all the quoted post public reports buried in threads and the public nature of doing it that way seems to cause ill will. The idea is to deescalate problematic situations rather than throw fuel upon them.

    Many thanks,
    Andrew.
     
  6. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 1, 2002
    17,972
    San Marino, CA
    Full Name:
    L. Wayne Ausbrooks
    Unfortunately, the temporary suspension of fixed ban lengths has only resulted in a return to the name-calling, personal insults, and trolling which had plagued the F1 forum in the past. The moderators have been addressing each offense at their own discretion, but 1) this hasn't helped maintain civility and 2) it has opened the door to complaints of unfair or imbalanced moderation.

    As a result, the rules enforcement and fixed bans laid out in post #1 below are officially back in effect for everyone posting in the F1 forum.

    And to clarify, Andrew's statement above meant that people who were sitting with two strikes would not automatically receive a permaban from the F1 forum as a result of another offense. (Ban length would be left to the discretion of the attending moderator.) However, we ALWAYS consider past behavior and ban history when taking disciplinary action. Each user's history of behavior, moderation, interaction with the moderators, etc was NOT erased. In other words, no slates were wiped clean.
     
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  8. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2003
    36,870
    Babcock Ranch, FL
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    Dave
    Hi guys.

    Need I remind you all of the rules within the F1 forum??

    Yup, I afraid I must.



    Be aware that the moderator team has had some complaints, AGAIN, about how you boys treat each other, and that's not good.

    So dial it back, or some of you guys will be out of here long enough not to be able to post anything about the last two races until they've been over for a month.

    Fair warning, enough of the trolling and insults.

    Dave
     
  9. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

    Apr 19, 2006
    4,725
    Stuttgart, Germany
    Full Name:
    Peter Singhof
    Fair enough...I guess "insults" are clear but how about "trolling". This word is used extensively here in this forum but it seems to be rather a matter of interpretation and not comprehensible.
    So I like to ask once and for all: joining a forum of a certain marque with no other purpose to tell the existing members that a driver of a different team is better than their driver and a driver that brought "them" 5 WDC without having any posts with a different matter....would you consider this trolling or only freedom of speech and simply expression of a different opinion? If you say it is the later I would like to know what you consider as "trolling"?

    Thanks
     
  10. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2003
    36,870
    Babcock Ranch, FL
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    Dave
    Trolling is like porno, to quote loosely from the US Supreme Court, "It's hard to define, but I know it when I see it."

    I've been here a long time. This is my second stint as a moderator, Rob generously made me a Global Moderator, meaning no corner of Fchat is out of my sight. You need cooler heads to prevail in here. You guys need to self police. Not use the report button for retribution, use it when necessary, to slow down the nasty stuff in here.

    Understand, there isn't a single moderator in here who thinks, "Ban them all and let Rob or Jack sort it out," is the best option, or even a viable one. But you do need to see that this forum is for more than just you guys, and a noob entering this forum is going to take one look and go running for the door.

    Oh, and yes, it is a Ferrari site. But if you notice, we have sub forums in FC for any number of other manufacturers, and this one isn't titled the, " 'I love Ferrari, all others keep out' F1 Forum" right?

    I have one more surprise for you all. Not even all the moderators are huge F1 fans, and some that are actually LIKE Hamilton, or Alonso, or, GASP, some other non Ferrari driver. I was a huge Schumacher fan, still am, but that doesn't mean I can't admire a non Ferrari driver for his obvious skills, or understand that he often pushed the F1 rules past their reasonable limits.

    So, let's try to get along, stop trolling each other, stop taking cheap shots at EACH OTHER. Feel free to be critical of a team, or a driver, or an owner, or whatever, but remember that can slip slide into trolling, too. Diversity is what makes the place interesting. If everyone just posts, "I LOVE FERRARI, FERRARI IS GREAT" it's gonna get a little boring in here.

    Personal attacks here are back to ZERO tolerance. Trolling as well. So if you think you're about to jump off the cliff with an over the top post, be aware it comes with a price.

    Dave
     
    timjen88 likes this.
  11. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

    Apr 19, 2006
    4,725
    Stuttgart, Germany
    Full Name:
    Peter Singhof
    First of all thank you for your reply...I originally wanted to thank you for your answer but actually you did not answer my question....
    You might understand that this is no satisfying answer ...You threaten us with bans for trolling but you are not just unable to specify what trolling is but even more you can not answer whether a specific behavior is to be considered trolling...
    Not a single of us said that everybody participating in this forum has to be a fan of Ferrari or its drivers....Here are a lot of people support other drivers and they are welcome and never been a problem. I do not understand why some over here behave like we want to quiet down other opinions, this is simply not true
    And this exactly is the point: There are subforums for other manufacturers and it would be interesting to make a poll in theses forums why the users are here. I am certain that they came out of interest for Ferrari and as they happen to have other cars as well they exchange about these as well. I doubt that many looked at google to find a Porsche forum where they can purely talk about Porsche and decided to join FChat only for this subforum.
    But this exactly is happening in the F1 section. We have/had people who purely joined us to tell us about Lewis Hamilton, they have not a single post about a different matter! So I still want to know why you think they joined in the first place? I doubt that the googled "Hamilton F1 Forum" and ended up here! They joined either for missionary work (convincing us about his "achievements") or simply to get reactions...I would say that this is exactly what is named "trolling"!!!
    And this was exactly the question you avoided to answer: is this behavior trolling or not? If so, what are you guys doing about it?
     
    360Tom likes this.
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  13. ylshih

    ylshih Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Advising Moderator Honorary Owner

    Mar 21, 2004
    16,257
    Northern CA
    Full Name:
    Yin
    If a user only and always posts "Hamilton did a fine job" or "What a great move by Hamilton" or other laudatory comments, I might consider that boring, but not trolling. On the other hand, if a user consistently posts "Hamilton smashed the pack, what say you now turkey fanboys" or "When are you guys going to stop rooting for losers and join the Hamilton love squad" or the like, then I might start examining the posting pattern for trolling. Beyond this you're not going to get a definitive answer from us and that is in your best interests. We do see trolling and we do ban trolls, but their behavior changes and adapts to any specific benchmarks or guidelines we state, so we no longer state them.

    The motivations for why a user and where a user chooses to post is not within our power to discern. We have many users who have registered on a Ferrari site, solely to post in the Politics and Religion (P&R) forum. I find that strange, but that behavior does not automatically make them bad users or trolls. Many, but not all, of these users are thoughtful, intelligent and well-mannered; so narrowly focussed posting is not itself an indicator.

    A banned user recently came back from his 30 day ban and criticized my ban of him, while ignoring what he was responding to. Let's be clear that any user that posts that another user is a "moron", "Idiot", "stupid", or the like, or tells another user to "**** off" or "eat ****", or the like, will get a ban on this forum, F1 or anywhere else. That is a longstanding, well-defined rule on the entire site, varying only in that the ban duration may depend on the circumstances and location (30 days in F1 at this time). Any user that feels an urge to utter such comments is MUCH better off reporting the posts that instigated that urge. A single post is evidence of a personal attack. But trolling is rarely supported by a single post and may take an entire posting history to support, so it may take many reports before we get there. The more that "trolls" are reported, the more we will pay attention and sustain a conviction that a user is in fact trolling.

    Besides reporting harassing or provocative posts, if a user is just inane, repetitive, myopic, or boring, then use the IGNORE feature. The fact that many users seem to be letting other fans "get their goat" is as much on them as on the posters. Is it really so easy to instigate knee jerk emotional reactions from seemingly intelligent and successful people? :rolleyes:
     
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  14. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2003
    36,870
    Babcock Ranch, FL
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    Dave
    And you guys need to help us out on this.

    Not only by trying to dial it back, but if you see someone trolling, report it, we'll take it from there.

    If someone is being abusive, report it, again, we'll take it from there.

    But, don't use the report button for retribution, or to address some long simmering personal grievance. that'll be annoying, to say the least.

    D
     
  15. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 19, 2017
    4,069
    I deeply appreciate the work the moderators do...but I'm beginning to wonder if they need some time off or some meds. There was a rather silly/absurd discussion going on about Lewis Hamilton's sexual orientation. I think almost everyone thought it was a non-discussion except those who were so deeply involved. I doubt Mr. Hamilton every heard about it or cared. I, in an impulsive moment thought of making light of it all, and I asked "Is Formula E gay?" Since the question is absurd I thought it would obviously be considered as humor. However I received a three day ban. I thought I had been minding my p's and q's since my recent long ban, but it seems I've fallen a foul of the mods again. The explanation was that I was "stirring" on the thread, which was also locked. If any of the mods care to respond here or by private message I would like you to consider removing this ban from my record. My feeling is that in this case you over reacted.
     
  16. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2003
    36,870
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    Dave
    John,

    I'll send you a note later this afternoon, but I'll tell you this, you have history here, and that history isn't one that says, "Easy going."

    You've posted a lot of incendiary stuff, and that's gonna weigh on you here.

    D
     
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  17. ylshih

    ylshih Global Moderator
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    #14 ylshih, Sep 13, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
    Reminder: no political or religious (P&R) content is allowed anywhere on the Ferrarichat site except for the P&R forum.

    Just because an F1 driver is currently using their position on an F1 team to promote political messages does not make that a permissible subject of discussion.

    Users are responsible for ignoring and avoiding discussion regarding the political aspects of that driver's, or any other driver's, behavior in the non-P&R discussion forums.

    Addendum: Also as electric cars becoming increasingly relevant to motorsports, discussion of the underlying political aspects of climate change that motivates the change is also not permissible. There are other topics considered P&R, but these are two specific areas that are most relevant to F1.
     
  18. Adrian Thompson

    Adrian Thompson Formula Junior

    Apr 28, 2004
    288
    Beverly Hills, Mi
    Full Name:
    Adrian Thompson
    Would an admin PM with about my recent ban please. I posted a link to the time article that listed LCH as one of 2020's 100 most influential people. That's not political. Someone else posted a Time front cover with Trump on. That may be political but not by me. I then posted a flippant comment that Time had once had Hitler as their man of the year. I see that as a, obviously non serious, reference to a (despicable, disgusting, non defensible) historical figure, again non political. I'm not sure where I crossed the line. That thread appears to have been moved so I can't see it, but I honestly don't believe I mentioned politics. Thanks
     
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  19. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Moderator
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    I'll PM you.

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
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  20. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

    Jun 6, 2011
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    Pedro Braga Soares
    Regarding my recent ban i would like to make it very clear that by no means was that a racist comment. If any of you wish to ban me because they didn't like what i said about Hamilton, Stroll or any other driver, feel free to do so, but do not call it racism, because it was not, and it will never be so. As i said before had i made the same remark about Bottas or Toto Wolf, that similarly to Hamilton also were a black mask (like every merc team menber), i seriouslly doubt any one would have been bothered with my coment. As far as i'm concerned, hamilton is no diferent from any other driver, so i treat him, like any other, i had just called Stroll a cockroach and nobody felt ofended by it, so i don't see why the "raccon" thing was any diferent, i honestly don't!
     
  21. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    William Denoyelles
    :rolleyes:
     
  22. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Moderator
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    Raccoon / Coon is a term steeped in racist connotations, in particular when directed at a black individual. You were banned for use of racist terminology. The onus is not on us to check whether you understand the terms you're using, it's on you. Similarly, racists have used Cockroach / Roach in a derogatory manner of describing black people - that too would have elicited a moderation response to describe a black driver in that way.

    You are far safer not likening any human to animals and insects that many parts of the world regard as pests or infestations. I'm sure you can find some other way to articulate your disdain for the performances or personalities of F1 drivers.

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
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  23. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    #20 furoni, Oct 13, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
    Got it Andrew, "375+" already took the time to explain it to me. As i said, i had no probelms with being banned, but could accept the reason used to ban me.
    I'm glad it's all cleard up now. You may be right when you sai it's not your onus to check if peope understand the terms they are using, but it's also reasonable to think that although i know what a racoon is, it would be likely i didn't know it had a racist connotation. In fact Andrew, the only thing i can be acused of is that i make absolutely no distinction between a white, black, asian or any other race, therefore, when i make a joke, it doens't even cross my mind the fact that something might be ofensive towards someone just because the colour of his skin, has a believe it shouldn't. I use the same word for hamilton, or for Alonso, as i dislike them both equaly.
     
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  24. Robb

    Robb Moderator
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    NeuroBeaker and greg328 like this.
  25. Ray Smith

    Ray Smith Formula Junior
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    May 17, 2020
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    Raymond Smith
    Very fair, common sense, and long over due.

    Thank you to the moderators for providing these new guidelines.

    #EssereFerrari ...

    Ray
     
  26. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Moderator
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    Well, they were established almost 5 years before you joined the site, so they're hardly new. :)

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  27. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Would be nice to have either in the app or online a way to track our status as in:
    The times we have been banned? What for etc just to keep track;)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  28. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Moderator
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    Oct 1, 2008
    32,711
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    I assume the lengthy hiatuses are sufficiently memorable for each individual not to forget their own record.

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     

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