E-Bay #120630873618 P4 recreation

365GT4 2+2 or 365GTC4. Nicer shape than most of the other P4 inspired cars.

 

I must admit, I normally despise this sort of thing but I do really like the norwoods.

 

With the exception of, I believe 0848, all the P3s, p412s, P3/4, P4s etc. appear to have been re-bodided at one time or another, and all of them appear to be slightly incorrect in one detail or another so, why does this one, which is also incorrect in more than one detail, seem to please?

Why is this a nicer shaper than most other P4 inspired cars? Which bit of the incorrectness pleases?

Why do some people normally `despise this sort of thing` but admit to liking Norwoods?

You either despise this sort of thing or you don`t.

 

In the day 0848 was hit pretty hard so I doubt that one has the body it started with.

Today some are better than others 0854 being lucky in that her original coupe body stayed in existence and has been restored.

That said I agree with you when you say:

"Why do some people normally `despise this sort of thing` but admit to liking Norwoods?

You either despise this sort of thing or you don`t."

 

It must be a nod to Norwood.

When people that are normally apalled at such things are not, then there is something inexplicable taking place.

While there are many that are not either disgusted or loving. That is different than Jhog's question and Jim's response.

I'm not wishing to start a new thread on this much, much passionately debated issue.
I hope is that others will not as well, and stay on point about the Norwood.

The relative merits about the "look" of this or that are purely subjective IMO and there are extremely few absolutes in this perspective.

 

I'm sorry I mispelled Jong's board name. I also just noted he has few posts here.

A short search will reveal more than you will care to read.

 

I like it...but would rather have a real vintage Ferrari.

 

Well here goes.
First, if I was to buy one first thing I would do is have to tweak it to make it as accurate as possible. I would also have the front steering rack mounting and pedal box area modified to increase the accurace. (Yes I have researched this). Only one true p4 survives as it was originally built so, owning such a car is out of the question everyone but a singular individual.Therefore I don't mind someone building an accurate as possible recreation wheather it be a Ferrari p4, aluminum 427 cobra, Jag xj13 etc. I admit the norwood could be more accurate. I wish it were, I understand his latest cars are virtually identical in appearance to the original and some of his earlier cars have been modified to look much much more accurate. I think these cars really capture the spirit of driving the real p4 as I would imagine it. When I said I normally despise this sort of thing I meant I hate fiero ferraris and v6 powered fiberglass p4s and fiberglass 427 cobras. I also don't like it when a Ferrari 330 gt is rebuilt as a 250gto like this.

http://fantasyjunction.com/cars/941-Ferrari-330%20GTO%20Recreation-4.0%20Litre%2012%20Cylinder

The norwood is built from scratch however so we arent talking about a 308 turned p4 here. It would have been nice for him to have had autocad back in the 80's when most of these were built. That would have greatly increased the accurace of the body panels.

Yes I do like the norwoods, I probably shouldn't but I do,
having mentioned the jag xj13 I also think this is absolutly brilliant.

http://www.motorclassiccorp.com/CarDetail.cfm?ID=166

this too

http://fantasyjunction.com/cars/649-Jaguar-D-Type%20Replica%20by%20Lynx-DOHC%20inline%206%20Cyl


I will concede however that I wish the norwoods were as accurate as these jags.

 

Is the bodywork (such as the whole rear section) made out of fiberglass or aluminum?

 

Remember the Seinfeld episode where a woman was viewing the oil painting of a smirking Kramer? To paraphrase her; "its hideous; but somehow I can't look away..."

I feel less repulsed than she apparently felt

 

They are built from steel tubing for the frame and aluminum for the body panels. The ones from the 80s and 90s all have a ferrari v12 from a 400 or a 365 gtc/4 with a few variations. I know of one with testarossa heads. I think they take around a year to 2 years to build. The modern ones are built with a 575m engine. The old ones weigh about 1800 lbs, the new ones about 2100 lbs, so they do have amaizing performance. If you want something that will give you an accurate as possible p4 experience on the road or track this may be the car for you. If you really get hung up on vintage details and things like that, you probably won't like it. There of course may be some who fall in between. I agree with Gordon Murray when said while designing the mclaren f1 that a high performance sports car should fit roughly in the footprint of a porsche 911. I think part of the reason I like the norwood is they represent to me the car I wish Ferrari would build. A small, simple, basic and gorgeous v12 powered midengined sports car that fits in the footprint of an f355 and has a roofline that goes no higher. The Enzo is too big and to tech laden and the f50 just never looked very good to me and is also too big, the boxer is seriously flawed with the engine mounted on top of the gearbox. Well I'm out of time so that will have to be it for now.

For more info check out these sites:

http://www.p4bynorwood.com/

and here is essentially a collection of various norwood p4 projects as well as some photos of a real p4.

http://www.p4bynorwood.com/p4/index.htm

and a very extensive ferrarichat discussion on the subject with lots of pics here

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126777&highlight=norwood+p4

 

Jeff,

Although I do agree with most of your reasons, the excuse that only 1 individual can own a real P4 is a seriously flawed one IMO.
Also, why is this any different than a 330GT giving up its' guts? A 365gt4 or 400 did, but the chassis was chucked because it didn't serve the purpose. In any case, focussing on all kinds of minor details and then employing an engine that in its' design is already of the wrong configuration seems redundant.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against these cars, would love to own one, but don't look for all kinds of reasons to justify it where there are none.

The argument that SpA should build a car with a relatively limitedl footprint and without all the complications modern cars display is a very valid one, that I'm sure many here will agree with.

 

I hear you. I guess If the engine ended up in a salvage yard or with a used parts reseller I don't have a problem with it, particularly if it came from a 400. I wouldn't want one from a daytona or a 275 for the reasons you cited. As for the accuracy issue I understand your point. I suppose my point is I know we will never achieve absolute accuracy but I do think such an engine gets us real close. The Jag xj13 recreation I pointed out has a much later sohc v12 where the original had a dohc unit. Concerning the specific car in question here, the engine is of very similar performance to the original, and it looks very similar with the intakes sprouting from between the cam covers. I personly think it's the best choice of all the road going v12 engines Ferrari has made. I'm not looking for something to show at pebble beach. I'm looking at something to drive. These cars also come with a Porsche transmission since no comparable Ferrari box was available at the time. I would likely want to change that out with a 360 manual and a 360 clutch. I see no problem with updating with ferrari parts here and there for ease of use. I know we could never get there, but if we could get to near 100 percent cosmetic and 85-95 percent mechanical accuracy and could drive it on the road, I would call it a great success and would be deleriously happy with it. I think you would have to agree this thing would be a hoot to drive. I forgot to mention it shouldn't have a Ferrari badge.

 

aluminum