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DIY 328 coolant "hose job" question(s)

Discussion in '308/328' started by mixedgas, Jun 30, 2019.

  1. mixedgas

    mixedgas Rookie

    Apr 23, 2019
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    Lake Oswego, OR
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    Mike
    Good evening. I'm swapping out the coolant hoses on my 89 328 GTS (USA spec). What prompted this was a pair of leaks from the expansion tank line under plenum, and a leak from the pictured hose. Question is, where does the pictured hose run to? It attaches to the rear-most cylinder head (where the leak was) but then disappears into the bodywork.

    Said another way, do folks usually replace this particular hose, or just splice in a patch near the engine as I have?

    I ordered a coolant hose kit from SRI, but I kinda doubt the pictured hose is included. I guess I'm just venting my frustration really because the car appears to have had a hose job at some point, NAPA gold on the big connections, but on this car, and from what I can generally, the smaller hoses are not often replaced as a matter of course?

    Thanks
    Mike
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  2. PT 328

    PT 328 F1 Rookie
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  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    #3 Steve Magnusson, Jun 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
    That hose is the hot water source for the passenger cabin heaters under the front bonnet. It's poorly shown (item 25) on this 1988 328 SPC page:

    https://www.ricambiamerica.com/car-diagrams/ferrari/v6-v8/328-group/328-1988/heating-system.html

    (I say poorly because it doesn't show it being connected to the engine.) Very common for the few inches of this hose on, and near, the nipple of the cylinder head to fail first as that's where the temperature is highest and high for the longest cumulative time after engine shutoff. Not a terrible sin to splice in a new piece there IMO, but probably within a few~5 years of that, the rest of the hose could be replaced without regret.
     
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  4. mixedgas

    mixedgas Rookie

    Apr 23, 2019
    29
    Lake Oswego, OR
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    Mike
    Thank you very much! I want to take a quick minute and express my honest gratitude for this forum. What an outstanding group of people, and the technical topics covered within are beyond reproach. I'm a member on a few other marque specific forums and frankly they pale in comparison to the information found in these pages.
     
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  5. mixedgas

    mixedgas Rookie

    Apr 23, 2019
    29
    Lake Oswego, OR
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    Mike
    Above I mentioned also changing the coolant hose (part 122218) running under the plenum to the expansion tank. I started disassembly and the hose (with nipple) just crumbled. It was not a happy moment as I interpret this to mean I need to pull the plenum, and repair/replace the nipple (or "union" part number 106241, number 26 in the attached diagram).

    Any thoughts on repairing this broken nipple without pulling the plenum? I'm not afraid to pull the plenum, it's just the list of "while I'm there" items that will keep the car up on blocks for quite a while.

    Thanks a ton for your thoughts!!!
    -Mike
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  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    #6 Steve Magnusson, Jul 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
    You could try sticking an EZ Out (or other equivalent screw extractor) into the open hole of the fitting remnant and hope it would unthread, but I wouldn't be too hopeful.

    https://www.amazon.com/s?k=ez-out&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_4D7ypeU4wIVCYbICh09NAyaEAAYAiAAEgKYXPD_BwE&hvadid=174209525252&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9028244&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t2&hvqmt=e&hvrand=695976365225447523&hvtargid=kwd-10407209160&hydadcr=4318_9337528&tag=googhydr-20&ref=pd_sl_58jxjx48u7_e

    Worst case you'd need to drill out the majority (preferably with a LH drill bit), pick out what you can of the male thread pieces, and then chase the female threads to clean them up.

    Hill Engineering makes a (superior) stainless steel replacement for this fitting:

    https://www.ricambiamerica.com/car-diagrams/ferrari/v6-v8/328-group/328-1988/water-pump-and-piping/106241-union.html
     
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  7. mixedgas

    mixedgas Rookie

    Apr 23, 2019
    29
    Lake Oswego, OR
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    Mike
    Thank you very much Steve! I have a pretty good set of extractors, but as you say I wont get my hopes up. Thanks for the tip on the replacement stainless version of this nipple.
     
  8. mixedgas

    mixedgas Rookie

    Apr 23, 2019
    29
    Lake Oswego, OR
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    Mike
    Just an update for posterity's sake, I removed the intake plenum last night using the excellent "Robzworks" DIY guide on this forum. Took about an hour and 15 minutes start to end to remove the intake plenum. I'm planning to replace the broken coolant nipple using the upgraded part described by Steve above. Planning to pull the coolant "manifold" (not sure what this is called) and take to a machine shop to extract the broken nipple and install the new one. (I have an excellent machine shop I use here in Portland).


    Since the plenum is off, I should probably have the injectors cleaned and replace the injector seals. Also considering having the plenum refinished in red. I’m sure both topics have been covered in detail on this forum, but as we sit here in 2019, if anyone has any recommendations I would love to hear them!


    Lastly, is there anything else you would do while the plenum is off? I’m already planning to replace all the soft hoses under there.


    Thank you!

    Mike


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  9. mixedgas

    mixedgas Rookie

    Apr 23, 2019
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    Lake Oswego, OR
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    Mike
  10. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula Junior

    Apr 17, 2014
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    Just cover those intakes, you don't want to drop anything down in there.
     
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  11. mixedgas

    mixedgas Rookie

    Apr 23, 2019
    29
    Lake Oswego, OR
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    Mike
    Absolutely, I have paper towels stuffed in each at this point. Going to inspect each with an endoscope just to be sure nothing found its way in!
     
  12. Alfer

    Alfer Formula 3

    Sep 4, 2007
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    Few years back i replaced all coolant and heating hoses after removing the plenum. My 328 had 70.000km but I replaced the injectors including the kind of plastic fittings and seal rings. When I drove the 328 after completing the job I noticed a better response and more power. The injectors are not expensive so instead of cleaning I recommend to replace for new.
     
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  13. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    Aug 7, 2012
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    Clean, clean, clean EVERYTHING in the valley. Check all sensors' wires for good integrity.
     
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  14. Cuddy K

    Cuddy K Karting

    Oct 30, 2017
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    Here's a link to a video I made on refinishing my plenum. Hope you find it helpful...

     
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  15. Hinecker

    Hinecker Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2011
    328
    Morning,
    That hose goes to the heater cores valves under the front hood. I replaced mine... don't pull it out without placing a guide through the hose first. I can draw you a diagram of how I did it, not difficult at all, just time consuming.

    John.
     
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  16. Saabguy

    Saabguy Formula 3

    Mar 28, 2012
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    I for one would like to see it.

    Lester
     
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  17. derekw

    derekw Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2010
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    Derek W
    If you replace the coolant hose to the front, do the vacuum hose at the same time. I attached a few meters of aircraft cable to the old hose, pulled it out the front, attached the new hose to the cable, lube the hose with synthetic grease, push from the back while someone pulls from the front. On my own I could not get them through.
     
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  18. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula Junior

    Apr 17, 2014
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    Right in front of the tank the hose has to make a sharp bend and there are protruding edges to the structure. If you are going to get stuck, that's the spot where it's going to happen.
     
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  19. cmt6891

    cmt6891 Formula 3
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    Most of the sensors in the valley are relatively inexpensive. While checking the wires and connectors leading to them, I would just replace them.
     
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  20. mixedgas

    mixedgas Rookie

    Apr 23, 2019
    29
    Lake Oswego, OR
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    Mike
    Thank you very much for the video, extremely helpful! I agree, it does always feel better without gloves on...
     
  21. mixedgas

    mixedgas Rookie

    Apr 23, 2019
    29
    Lake Oswego, OR
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Thanks for the advice so far. Just an update that my simple hose job has turned into a timing belt replacement (since I already have the plenum off, coolant drained, etc. etc.). I have been really enjoying getting to know the 328, what a remarkable piece of engineering and art!

    I'm still dinking around with "The Collection" to get copies of prior service records, but it appears the car had a major service about 7 years and 500 miles ago according to carfax. For that reason, I'm planning to just change belts/tensioners (Hill of course) and forgo the valve adjustment / cam timing at this point. Honestly, I'm a little intimidated by the cam timing, so I would like to thoroughly read up on that and maybe launch into cam timing / valve adjust after I get a few more miles in the 328 under my belt. It runs great now save some minor electrical issues.

    Water pump also looks pretty good, and the car cools well. On the 328 it seems pretty easy to address down the road as necessary so I'm planning to defer until necessary.

    I ordered new brass fuel injectors, and the seals from the 400i guy in Holland. I'll save the steel ones just in case.

    Finally, I had the radiator rodded out and the tanks resealed by a local radiator shop. It had a couple of small leaks and the support straps were loose. All sorted now.

    Just sharing for posterity's sake, but feel free to comment if you see any pitfalls!

    Thanks again!
    Mike
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  22. Saabguy

    Saabguy Formula 3

    Mar 28, 2012
    1,483
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    Just FYI I ordered brass injectors and tested them first, over half required excess pressure to open and they required several cycles to operate the way I think that they should operate.
     
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  23. derekw

    derekw Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2010
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    I wouldn't replace 500 mile tensioners as they degrade from miles/heat, not years. Compress and lock the tensioner and then also loosen the three tensioner bolts to give some play-- makes it easier to get the belts off and on again. Use a white marker or a little touch of white paint to mark the pulleys before removal just in case they move (look up the hockey puck lock design.)
     
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  24. Hinecker

    Hinecker Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2011
    328
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  25. Hinecker

    Hinecker Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2011
    328
    Hello Mike, just posted a diagram of how the hose is routed. You have to remove both left wheels, front and back of course:). Remove the spare tire and fiber glass cover that protects the brake master cylinder. Remove protection panel behind front wheel and rear wheel inside cover.
    Now you can start detaching the hose from the front "T" and holding brackets, front and back, in such a way that you can lay it out as straight as you can.
    Starting from the back push a 2mm galvanized steel cable through the hose (you will need at least 10m).
    To make it easy, solder the tip of the cable so it doesn't flake. When it comes out the other end, you now have to continue routing it through the new hose(you will need at least 5m of new hose to be on the safe side and not run short.
    Once it comes out of the other end of the new hose, you have to hold it with something secure, like a very tight vice grip.
    At this point, you can start pulling on the cable from the back wheel well... very slowly. A helper is highly recommended and you should to rotate the hose as you pull.
    This is the most difficult part, be patient and pull slowly yet evenly.
    where the two hoses touch, old and new, wrap it with electrical tape so the are in line.

    Good luck!!!, if you need more details or don't understand certain points, let me know.

    John.
     
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