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Dino Saga 081207 _ Styling and Aerodynamics

Discussion in 'Corbani's Corner' started by John Corbani, Dec 7, 2008.

  1. John Corbani

    John Corbani Formula 3
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    #1 John Corbani, Dec 7, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Dino Saga 081207 _ Styling and Aerodynamics

    We are all Dino lovers so we know where Ferrari came from in body design. The sports racers of the 50s and early 60s had good looking bodies designed without benefit of wind tunnels. General rules of aircraft design held sway. Small frontal area, smooth curves, short or clipped tail. Little notice was paid to underbody. Tires were narrow. Aerodynamic forces at high speeds were frequently a problem. No problem on the road, OK at 150, but major grief as cars approached 180 mph. The cars wanted to fly or dart sideways. High profile tires could not control the forces.

    Nose fins and rear wings were added with no real sophistication. These added just enough down force to make the car controllable but added drag. Cars still looked good. Now add wide radial tires, rear engines and things started to change. Race cars no longer had to be so streamlined. Bodies went boxy, no sweeping curves. It was found that you got lower drag if front and sides of body went as close to the road as possible. Wings became more sophisticated, went to rear only and cars went faster. Race cars and road cars parted ways. Road cars kept some curves, sides and noses dropped lower to the ground.

    By the 355, most of the go-fast details had been worked out and there was nothing left but to add horsepower if you wanted to go faster. Sounds like Shelby talking. Enzo did the F40. Looked pretty good, could be driven on the road, carried a passenger, went 200 mph. Anything in the neighborhood of 600 HP would do fine. OK! The 360 and 430 came along with big engines and underbody shaping to add downforce. If you want everything in a roadable race car, the Enzo is there.

    All this time Ferrari kept building V12 GT cars for a select clientele. The curves from the 60s were still there through the 575. Then the wheels fell off. We got the 599, then the 612, now the California. Big noses, way too much body detail, awkward. Ferrari is following the rest of the world in the styling brought on by front wheel drive. And art school graduates who all think alike. How do they do it? The students. How does Lamborghini avoid doing it?

    Fun to look at the 206 SP that Napolis bought. Our Dinos are the final descendants of the low drag aerodynamic styling phase. The 330s and the 206s were the peak examples. The 3X8 series added power, crisper styling and got Ferrari into real production. Minor changes until the 599. I hope the rear engined cars continue and hope that the stylists don’t ruin that line too. Would be nice to pick up some styling points from the 4/5. Napolis showed that PininFarina can still do it. The 550 showed that a V12 is still compatible with a low nose. Why, oh why?

    I’ll just go out and walk around my Dino again. Good therapy!

    John
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  3. F40Michelotto

    F40Michelotto Rookie

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    Hello John

    the rims on your Dino are beautiful. Where have you bought them?

    Dieter
     
  4. 2GT

    2GT Formula 3

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    John, I think that one of the best indications of the Dino's superior aerodynamics (unaided by airdams or spoilers) is the almost total absence of wind noise at speed, with the windows closed. You just hear that beautiful whine reminiscent of a jet engine! Fred
     
  5. UroTrash

    UroTrash Three Time F1 World Champ
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    In mine wind noise doesn't stand a chance vs gear whine and X-Ost.
     
  6. 2GT

    2GT Formula 3

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    I'm sure that gear whine is a substantial component of the overall sound, but I love it! I don't think that I'd enjoy it as much on a long journey, though. Fred
     
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  8. John Corbani

    John Corbani Formula 3
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    Its OK for the driver Fred but not good for the passenger. No real whine in fifth but lots of gear noise. I have driven to Las Vegas frequently, 400 miles from Santa Barbara. Takes anywhere from one to six hours depending on whether you stop for lunch (or tickets) or not. Mixed roads. Lots of 2 lane across high desert to Victorville. Noise is too high for any audio entertainment through speakers. An MP3 player with earphones works for the passenger but the driver loses touch with the car to a degree. Cuts down on the fun.
    John
     
  9. John Corbani

    John Corbani Formula 3
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    They are Gotti 3 piece wheels from the early 1980s. 16 x 7" in front, 16 x 8" in the rear. Modern tires.
    John
     
  10. 2GT

    2GT Formula 3

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    John, I only have OEM-style radios in both my cars, and I find that any kind of enthusiastic driving (almost always with the windows down) renders them almost impossible to hear. Loud music, especially, seems to fight the sounds of the engine and gears. I used to sit in the Dinos in the garage and listen to the radio in the evening, when more interesting programming was available. It's not a bad sound chamber when not running! Fred
     
  11. Crawler

    Crawler F1 Rookie

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    #9 Crawler, Dec 8, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Not to hijack your thread, Jon, but I recently augmented my Alpine CD player with a 50 watt per channel Rockford Fosgate amplifier. Stock head unit's 17 or so watts per channel just didn't cut it, too much distortion with the volume turned up to be audible over the car noise. My first choice was to put the amp under the passenger seat, but the installer said not enough clearance there for good air circulation. Behind the seats wasn't an option because that's where the top stows. Third choice was under the glovebox, a rock-solid mounting that's fairly unobtrusive and causes no interference with the legroom. Just four small screw holes so an easy fix if somebody were to want to undo it. Photo's not so good, but you get the idea. Pretty much invisible from outside of the car.

    On Saturday, I took the car on a 240 mile round-trip to Columbia, SC for the FCA holiday lunch (other photo). The stereo was great, plenty of power for distortion-free freeway listening at the required volume.

    By the way, this was also my first longish Interstate trip since the 16" wheels and tires were installed last summer. The car tracks as straight and true as a bullet!
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  13. 2GT

    2GT Formula 3

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    Dinodan, Those 16" Dino lookalike wheels are amazing! They really open up the design, which I always thought was a trifle busy. I never tire of looking at the Verde Germoglio! Fred
     
  14. Crawler

    Crawler F1 Rookie

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    #11 Crawler, Dec 8, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2008
    Thanks, Fred. I'm really pleased with the wheels & tires. The great thing is that I got all four wheels and tires for not much more that the cost of four Michelin XWX! The Bridgestone RE760 Sport is a fantastic tire.

    The interesting thing about the wheels is that nobody notices any difference. I had the car parked up there on Saturday amongst 20 or so FCA people, and not one person remarked on them to me. I take that as a good thing.
     
  15. 2GT

    2GT Formula 3

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    #12 2GT, Dec 8, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2008
    I've always thought that the XWX looked like a balloon tire or an inner tube. My only experience with them, when I bought 04808 in 1976 with about 8,500 miles logged, was that I could practically see them wearing every time that I took the car out. They reminded me of automotive erasers! The car today has first-series 308 five-point-star wheels (with Dino center caps, though!) and 225/60 14 tires. I think that your 16s are much better looking than the 328 16" wheels, and you still get the benefit of a wider, low-aspect tire. Well done! Fred p.s.: I see on your profile that you might like a Cayman S. I have a non-S Cayman. There definitely is an affinity between the Dino and the Cayman. For proof, do a search at CaymanClub.net. f
     
  16. Crawler

    Crawler F1 Rookie

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    Our car used to go through XWXs at an astonishing rate, especially the rears. I think the newer ones might have a better compound, and at $400 a pop, they sure should! I'll check out that Cayman site. Fortunately, I have no more garage space! ;)
     
  17. John Corbani

    John Corbani Formula 3
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    Car and amp mounting look good. Glad the wheels and tires are working out.
    John
     
  18. UroTrash

    UroTrash Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #15 UroTrash, Dec 8, 2008
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  19. gcmerak

    gcmerak Formula 3

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    Hi John,

    The 206 and the 246 IMHO were in large measure the soul of Ferrari.

    Ciao,
    George
     
  20. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #17 Napolis, Dec 13, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi

    We put Dino Competizione into the wind tunnel. It was as aerodynamic as a small truck. The front wing wasn't big enough to create enough down force to over come the rear wing so basically both wings have to be cranked fully out. The Front air inlet which is under the car starves for air at high speeds so we had to add an adjustable tuning vane which works nicely.

    That said nice curvy shapes can still develop great aero. P 4/5 for example is much more aerodynamic than an Enzo. It has lower drag, is much more balanced, and has twice the down force of an Enzo. This took a lot of work, testing and the building and modifying of two full scale models.

    Dino's first drive was the 800 miles of the Historic Targa Florio which were fantastic. She's on her way home, fully sorted and I'll have her at Quail next summer.

    Best
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  21. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran
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    Interesting, just shows one that what looks the most aerodynamic is not always as it appears, reminds me of a certain german car launched in 1977 and later went on to win euro car of the year.
     
  22. Jon Hansen

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    Jim,
    That is a one beautiful car, thanks for the picture. I am assuming the wind tunnel testing is done in real time mph values so that the car squats the same amount as when at speed.
    How high (fast?) can the Pininfarina tunnel go?
    How does one go about measuring the coefficient of drag in principal? Is there a bench mark value for an empty tunnel that resistance is measured and compared against?

    Best of luck with your new ride.
    Jon
     
  23. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #20 Napolis, Dec 13, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Theirs is rolling road wind tunnel. The car is floated on a counterbalanced platform that can move in the directions they want to measure such as drag/lift/yaw. A computer notes the measurements. It a very high speed wind tunnel with airflow to over 160mph.

    In the second shot you can see too much rear wing angle lifting the nose.
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  24. Jon Hansen

    Jon Hansen Formula Junior
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    160mph +? That's impressive.
    Not exactly a good place to leave your coffee cup lying about, but definately a great place for a James Bond bad guy vs good guy scene in an upcoming sequel. (spare the car, of course)
    Thanks for the additional pictures.
     
  25. gcmerak

    gcmerak Formula 3

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    Beautiful car.

    Ciao,
    George
     

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