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Dino F40

Discussion in '206/246' started by msdesignltd, May 28, 2018.

  1. nis1973

    nis1973 Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2013
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    It didn't take long for this to turn into a silly and unnecessarily nasty back and forth...
     
  2. LamboLover

    LamboLover Formula 3

    Jul 16, 2006
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    Rick
    You can call it fact all you want just because the law recognizes it as such, ignoring the law only branded it as such b/c it came off the production line a specific way. To think afterwards, that a butchered Ferrari is still a Ferrari because the VIN is registered as such is ridiculous.

    At most though, I can recognize based on your argument, your posts will be easier to scroll by now.
     
  3. redwood

    redwood Karting

    Apr 30, 2018
    77
    Brisbane and Edinburgh
    Leaving aside the existential questions about whether this is a Dino not, which we can argue about till the cows come home, has anyone got more insight into whether this beast has an F40 block? The fact that the man who knows for sure, Kevin, is more intent on talking about what he did on his holidays than clearing this one up, doesn't bode well.

    It would be a shame if even magazines such as Octane, that said it has an F40 block in their article, cannot be relied on.
     
  4. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    12,695
    Would you expect Octane to review the engine block serial number prior to publishing? I think they wouldn't, but I guess some may do that...
     
  5. nis1973

    nis1973 Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2013
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    I enjoy reading Octane but I'm afraid they'd print pretty much anything that the owner tells them. They featured two cars over the last year or two that are widely considered to be fakes...
     
  6. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Steven Robertson
    Out of interest, which two cars?
     
  7. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #157 miurasv, Jun 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
    A big clue is the dry sump F40 block's oilways are plumbed differently to the wet sump 308/328 Mondial blocks. An F40 block would NOT have an oil line/hose adaptor where arrowed on David Lee's engine in the first picture. You can see from the pic of the wet sump 308 Mondial QV block that the casting is machined and threaded for the oilway/hose, as it is on a 328/Mondial block, whereas the casting is not made up as an oilway on the F40 block in the second picture.

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  8. redwood

    redwood Karting

    Apr 30, 2018
    77
    Brisbane and Edinburgh

    At this point all the available evidence points to it not being an F40 block. With the Lee/Leno and the Octane article saying that it is, it now seems unlikely that Kevin is going to get drawn on this.

    All of this is a real shame, because it is such a cool project. And, it looks, and probably goes and sounds just the same regardless of whether it has an F40 block or not. Such a shame that it now looks like a case of getting carried away with the marketing hype.
     
  9. cls

    cls Formula 3
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    Does Lee know this?
     
  10. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2013
    2,137
    It looks to be the same casting between both, just machined differently to suit each particular application, these blocks are then linered to define the finished bore anyway. Interesting that the F40 engine is not as bespoke as I thought

    This is just a guess but other manufacturers do not stamp bare replacement blocks, they leave it up to the engine builder to transfer them across from the damaged one, which could also be why the cast in embossed Ferrari part is missing or has been ground off. Maybe this block was intended for a Mondial originally but was then not used, hence the numbers manually stamped in. So it is both a Mondial and a F40 replacement casting. F40 sounds sexier though :)
     
  11. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #161 miurasv, Jun 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
    David Lee does know who Piero Ferrari is. He has even met and spoken to him. See the video below regarding the 275 GTB/4 below at about 3.10. He must have had a momentary memory lapse/nerves being in the presence of and being filmed with Jay Leno in the Dino video?

     
  12. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2013
    2,137
    If you didn't want to use a Dino, maybe Kevin will put one of his engines into one of these instead, as they seem to ft :)

     
  13. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 F1 Rookie
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    That must be pretty bonkers.
     
  14. dinogts

    dinogts Formula 3
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    Feb 15, 2005
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    I have this old 1905-1906 Picasso, a charcoal drawing of a woman wringing out her hair. I have always liked it but I thought it needed a little more color, or horsepower, if you will, so I went to Sherwin Williams and bought some red, green, Prussian Blue, Cobalt Blue, and iridium, and touched it up a little. I think it looks really hot now, especially in my living room hanging on the wall behind my Roche Bobois pink sectional sofa. I am sure it will encourage my neighbors in Beverly Hills to do the same.
     
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  15. dinogts

    dinogts Formula 3
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    Corbani's Dino didn't have any fuel starvation issues.
     
  16. dinogts

    dinogts Formula 3
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    Great news! About 4000 Dinos are sitting around waiting to be carved up and converted into whatever a millennial KNOWS that he or she deserves. Coming to Uber/Lyft soon!!!
     
  17. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2004
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    This is from one of John’s posts:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/left-hand-turn-fuel-starvation.229148/

    “Ray,
    Your mechanic doesn't have a clue. All Dinos stall in a hard left turn at speed with throttle closed. G forces keep gas in float bowl on right side of carb. Idle jets on left side of carbs get no gas. If you keep throttle open you can minimize it. Main jets work fine all the time. This stall only happens occasionally but has caused a lot of mechanics to use it as an excuse for bad tuning. A properly set-up Dino is very tractable. Carbs have to be ballanced, jets clean, distributor timing according to the book, proper plugs. Set Idle speed for 1000 rpm and the car should be trouble free for 10-15,000 miles. Take a look at the Table of Sagas in my Corner and read the Carb and Distributor Sagas. Not a big deal, just take it one step at a time. You will be delighted when things are right.
    John”

    I had the same experiences with my stock DCNF carbs. If I kept the throttle open a tad, no starvation. If it was closed it would starve, sputter.... The Stratos IDF’s I now run are made for this motor and have no starvation. Linear, super responsive performance from idle to redline. Really unleashes it’s potential. I wish Corbani was still around. I loved his philosophy and mindset.

    I live right next to some of the best canyon roads that crisscross the Santa Monica Mountains. Roads like Mulholland, Decker, Stunt etc. Enough to challenge the best cars and drivers. You can go miles without stopping. Huge vista views of the valley and the Pacific. Lots of elevation. Nothing like driving a small, agile, well set up sports car on these roads!

    Freeman
     
  18. Telaio

    Telaio Karting

    Jan 11, 2006
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    Kevin O'Rourke

    Surely your 1st mistake is to take Picasso seriously ........... a bad case of King's new clothes if ever there was one, I'm assured by the cognoscenti that he could actually paint quite well, but decided to go for the money instead. If you had gone for Monet then maybe I could have taken you seriously, ;-} cheers Kev.
     
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  19. spicedriver

    spicedriver Formula 3

    Feb 1, 2011
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    For the amount of money involved, Mr. Lee could have built a car from scratch. Mold a replica Dino body out of carbon fiber, and source a run of new 488 motors from Ferrari. Perhaps they could even be raced in a pro series ?

    I agree that the original classic of classics should not be modified so heavily.
     
  20. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Veteran
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  21. dinogts

    dinogts Formula 3
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    I drove Corbani's 246 after his death, along with my mechanic while doing a PPI, around the hills above Santa Barbara, and his Dino had no starvation issues whatsoever. John's wife took us into his basement workshop and it was very clear that John had spent a lot of time working on his carbs - there were Weber bits and pieces everywhere. Those who knew him or had any contact with him, either by phone or email. realize what a great source of information and down-to-earth experience we are now missing.

    Mark
     
  22. Telaio

    Telaio Karting

    Jan 11, 2006
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    Kevin O'Rourke

    Hi Redwood, a quick up-date on my holidays ……….. please see my attached photo showing my V8 Gts Dino high in the Pyrenes mountains of norther Spain Europe, nearly 9,000 feet up and she's running perfectly. The temperatures varied greatly from the valley floor as we climbed and the route was very extreme with super steep hairpin turns climbing and twisting back on themselves; great conditions for proving and improving our projects. Our next proving test / holiday trip is off to Maranello for Mathias's 50th Dino celebrations, hope to see you there ;-} cheers all, Kev.
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  23. redwood

    redwood Karting

    Apr 30, 2018
    77
    Brisbane and Edinburgh
    Too funny Kev! Maybe all that fresh mountain air might jog your memory about which engine block you dropped into David Lee's car!
     
  24. ramy85

    ramy85 Rookie

    Jul 29, 2012
    20
    Riyadh
    From an article published on O'Rourke Coachtrimmers & Supplies, who retrimmed the interior of David Lee's Dino. Article continues to detail project and features links to extensive photogallery and products used in retrim.

    Internal changes highlighted in italics.:

    "The Dino has always been admired for its design and beauty. However, some owners are a little let down by the engine’s performance. Something Kevin O'Rourke of Mototechnique set out to rectify when he built his own version of the Dino featuring a V8 engine from a 328, 355 throttle bodies and an injection system providing around 300hp.

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    Defiantly still a Dino, just not as you know it!

    Kevin was approached by a Ferrari collector wishing to purchase his masterpiece. After years of hard work and development he couldn't part with his V8 Dino. Instead he offered to build another, giving the customer the opportunity to change the specification who brought to the table ideas to increase power to 400hp. This was achieved by using a 3.6L Ferrari V8 block with 348 cylinder heads, titanium con rods, bespoke cam and crank shafts, custom pistons, fuel injected throttle bodies and fly by wire throttle. All this power needed to be controlled by fully adjustable custom Koni coilovers and Ferrari 360 brakes hiding under brand new custom forged 17" (opposed to the original 14") Campagnola style wheels wrapped in Pirelli rubber.

    Along with the technical upgrades, there are a few subtle cosmetic changes, including the covered headlights, with no visible fixings and a custom perspex engine cover to show off that magnificent V8 and polished velocity stacks."
     

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