Did Enzo Ferrari really prefer Peugeots?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by dmj, Mar 13, 2014.

  1. dmj

    dmj Formula Junior

    Feb 11, 2012
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Full Name:
    Dino Milic-Jakovlic
  2. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    It is a well known fact that Enzo Ferrari did indeed drive Peugeots; perhaps because Enzo liked Peugeots, Phil Hill had one too (a 404) when he was driving for the Scuderia.

  3. dmj

    dmj Formula Junior

    Feb 11, 2012
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Full Name:
    Dino Milic-Jakovlic
    Well, a quick Google search results in pics of Phil Hill with 403 and 404, Lorenzo Bandini with 404, and pics of Ferrari Servizio corse Peugeot 404 Break with plate MO 87637.

    But still my initial question stays, what were the other cars Enzo used before Mini and Pug 404?
  4. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
    Charleston, SC
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    I'll never understand the french connection. My Father in law imported a Peugeot in the 70's to Canada because he liked it so much. Don't understand it. But it is what it is.
  5. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    Peugeot had long historic ties with Pininfarina, who styled some Peugeots, most notably the 404 and the very nice "404 coupé" and "404 cabriolet", then the cute "504 coupé" and "504 cabriolet" at the end of the sixties, which were a beautiful classical and restrained drawing; unfortunately, these were/are let down by indifferent engines and devoured, litteraly, by rust. Perhaps the Peugeot-Ferrari connection came through Pininfarina?

    Peugeots had their afficionados in the past; the Peugeot were usually austere in styling, for non-exuberant persons, but they had/have a strong reputation of robustness and dependability (which still endures to this day in some African countries).

    The "504 cabriolet" (clothtop) is still a very pretty car, especially in its first issue, without the latter "styling enhancements" (hmm!); wasn't it for the trouble with rust, which seems impossible to control, one would be in my garage alongside the 328 GTB today. I decided to buy a 328 GTS instead.

  6. dmj

    dmj Formula Junior

    Feb 11, 2012
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Full Name:
    Dino Milic-Jakovlic
    Fascination with Peugeots might be rooted in pre-WWI GP days, as multi-valve engined Peugeots dominated both European and American racing. IIRC it is known that these Peugeot GP engines had strong influence at both Vittorio Jano and Enzo Ferrari.

    But somehow, especially regarding what happened in 1955. I'd think that Enzo's choice of road cars might be inclined towards Lancia.
    It is true, however, that all three Peugeots mentioned in the article were Pininfarina designs, so it might be an obvious connection.

    And, regarding rampant rust problems, it is true that French and Italian cars were more rust-prone than those produced in countries with worse climates. Seems pretty natural to me. Sheer number of surviving old Pugs in Africa and Mediterranian countries shows good build quality and longevity – but rustproofing was unfortunately of lesser concern there.
  7. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    Believe me, the rust problem on the "504 Cabriolet" is the worst known of any Peugeot...unfortunately, as the car is pretty as they come. But rust can litteraly eat the whole car, not only the fenders but the car's structure and chassis. Water evacuation has not been taken into account when designing the car. On a "504 Cabriolet", once rust has begun, it is impossible to stop.


    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ

    Jan 11, 2008
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    Peugeot had a well earned reputation for quality back then.
    They still make excellent pepper mills.
  9. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Rookie
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    Aug 29, 2008
    Madison Ohio
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    David A.
    I don't think any car builders back in the day thought much about rust problems.

  10. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    Dec 12, 2005
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    Tom Spiro
    Enzo had several Peugots as well as Fiats and Mini's - and a 2+2 Ferrari from time to time.
  11. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    I drove a couple 504's in the late 80's. If I came across a clean driver I'd consider purchasing it. It had a ride like no other car at the time. The seats were second to none but the upholstery did fall apart. And handling. I remember very vividly a controlled slide across an intersection at 3am once. What a car! :)

    The seat belts had no retractor but cinched up at the buckle. When the driving got hairy we'd push ourselves into our seats and cinch the belts and we were part of the car. I seem to recall the shifter being a bit vague, but they were tired old cars by the time we got them.

    At a recent party I met a fellow who had lived in Africa for many years and we ended up talking about cars and he has a 504 wagon diesel. He was talking about some electrical gremlins. I asked if he wanted to sell it, he said definately not, he was looking for someone to work on it. I told him I don't have time to work on all my cars and wished him luck.
  12. Arjan

    Arjan Karting

    Oct 27, 2005
    The Netherlands
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    Arjan de Roos
    End sixties Ferrari red was the same as Peugeot Cina Rouge. Also via the Pf link.
  13. spieler

    spieler Formula Junior

    Oct 13, 2012
    miami florida
    May i add that Colombo drives a 403 peugeot convertible
    In the serie :)
  14. GTE

    GTE F1 Veteran

    Jun 24, 2004
    The Netherlands
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    Let's not forget mr. Ferrari wasn't really into cars to begin with. His game were racingcars.
  15. rmani

    rmani F1 Veteran
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    Nov 1, 2003
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    Interesting i didnt know this
  16. conlux

    conlux Karting

    Feb 2, 2010
    Seattle, WA
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    I remember seeing a post either on this site, or T Yang's that Tom Shaughnessy owned Enzo's personal GTE.
  17. joe.s.a

    joe.s.a Rookie

    Jul 15, 2014
    It doesn't come as any surprise that the old man used Peugeots as his daily drivers for many years. A 404, 504, 504 coupe etc. Peugeot is the second oldest carmaker in the world and has been building racing cars long before Ferrari existed, Peugeot already built luxury cars for the top end of the market when even Mercedes-Benz was only finding its feet. The cars Enzo drove was Peugeot at the height of its powers building reliable, quality cars with comfort levels that was very much peerles. The 208 T16 that smashed the Pikes peak record, the 908 Le Mans winners and the new 308 winning Euro car of the year is showing that the spark is still there and growing again. The old man was simply enough of a perfectionist to have realised this long ago and he didn't compromise excellence for the sake of sentiment.
  18. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

    Oct 18, 2009
    Worcester, England
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    Phill J
    Enzo Ferrari believed that if Peugeots were good enough for his engine designer then they were good enough for him!

    He later ditched Peugeots when he discovered that it was TV detective: Columbo who drove them, and not his engine designer: Colombo! :p
  19. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper F1 World Champ
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    Mar 15, 2012
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    George Pepper
    I resemble that remark.



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