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Daytona Values

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by 328KNB, Mar 8, 2005.

  1. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Franklin E. Parker
    Those high dollar muscle cars are not you high production ones... but the rare special cars with certain options that may have originally been on a few cars...sometimes only 2 or 3. For those cars they are more valauble than cars like a Daytona with a prodution of 1000 cars or so. It is the "sucker" that buys a clone of one of those cars like the buyer of the Daytona spider conversion that pays too much.
     
  2. coachi

    coachi Formula 3

    May 1, 2002
    2,108
    SC USA
    I have not read this entire thread...and someone must have already mentioned it perhaps...the reason daytona prices are on the rise is because the number of cars out there that are available is drying out...doesnt matter how many they built 1000 or 5000. F40 command hefty prices and they were produced in large numberd also...though not quite as many as daytonas.

    Most importantly, people buying these cars now are end users, and won't become speculators or sellers until they double in price (maybe never).

    Back in the eightees, a car was bought and sold before it was even driven by the first buyer. Now it is an entirel;y different market. If you can find daytonas you are happy with and pay 145 for them, all the power to you.
     
  3. dry4re

    dry4re Formula Junior

    Mar 29, 2005
    487
    AZ
    I must be one of the dumb guys. I bought my Daytona last fall and paid top dollar. What did I get? I got a fully documented, sorted out car, with tools, books and 5,400 miles. I have driven it on FCA drives and it now has 6,100 miles on it. The rubber is perfect, the belts are fine, the a/c blows cold air. It recently came in 2nd in a local concours, and the only thing it needs is a light under the dash on the left side. I have had to spend ZERO to make it right. It's a great car, but I must be dumb because it took me ten months to find one that good. It was never advertised, not in the FML letter, etc. For those looking for really good cars under $175k all I have to say is good luck!
    dry4re
     
  4. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Honorary

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Nope you're not. Very few people realize how expensive it is to put something right. The money you pay upfront for something that is in good shape is always MUCH less than it will cost to put it right.
    "Pay for the restoration get the car for free."
     
  5. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    I agree 100% with Jim. Your not the dumb one at all. My sarcastic posts were aimed at Tom in good natured humor, poking fun at his obvious aloofness and "dealer speak". Everyone knows what Tom's reality is: a very experienced, knowledgable and savvy dealer. If he is BUYING a very nice Daytona for resale, the top market for nice Daytonas is $125K. If he is SELLING a nice Daytona the market is $200K. YMMV.

    I bought my car just before the market started going up, I paid retail at the time. I bought my car from the second owner who had owned it for 28 years. It had been fanatically maintained and restored as needed along the way. But even though it was in extremely good shape, I have still spent $15K on it in the last 2 years making it truely "right" and I have a few little things to go. One of those is completing the tool roll.... I am sure I will pay for my sarcasm when I call Tom for tools!

    When you say the "belts" are in good shape, I hope your talking about the water pump and alternator belts. The cams are driven by chains you know.

    I agree with you when it comes to having to pay for what you get if you want a really great car. When I bought mine, everyone said you can buy good Daytonas for $90K - $100K (this in late 2002 time frame). Well I looked hard at every Daytona I could find. The $100K cars were out there, but they were dogs. The good cars were $125K - $135K. Today the dogs are $125K - $135K and the really great cars are, well, lots more than that.



    Terry
     
  6. dry4re

    dry4re Formula Junior

    Mar 29, 2005
    487
    AZ
    Has anyone noticed that the Daytonas are gone from the FML, Heritage looks like it sold theirs, the two that Waterman had in Fla are no longer for sale, and even the German Singen (or whatever) no longer has a bunch. We have talked about prices going up - though no one has accurately adjusted the price guides - but it seems to me that it would be awfully tough trying to find one now. I just met a guy who told me of a friend that just paid $165 and the car needs another 25 to 30k to make it right. For whatever it's worth.
    dry
     
  7. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    41,520
    Texas!

    I talked to Mahatma Tom, aka King of the Toasted Ponies, this week. He sez, "My apple cart is empty! Toasted Ponies. Toasted Ponies. Anybody got some Toasted Ponies?"
     
  8. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    Well I dont know about values or car availability or any of that....

    But I do know the weather has been great this week and I have driven my car just about every day. I LOVE to drive this car! The noises it makes going through 6k rpm and the torque that holds you to the back of the seat, its all addictive!



    Terry
     
  9. billb

    billb Formula Junior
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Jun 4, 2001
    407
    Shorewood, IL
    Full Name:
    Bill Badurski
    The Barrett Jackson auction made me angry enough to write in and complain to the television channel covering it. Only one Daytona was there, and as I recall it was also the only vintage V-12 at the auction. As it was coming onto the podium, Nascar Channel (or Speed, or whatever they call themselves) decides to go to a commercial break. Coverage resumes just in time for yet another Mustang. Obviously their Program Director feels the typical viewer would rather see more of the same than one of those "furrin cars". Perhaps he's right, look at their programming line up. I suspect the only reason they cover F1 is because it's too early in the morning for (yawn) Nascar.

    I too was shocked at this latest issue of FML, which had no Daytona for sale. Even the ones that seem to be there forever are gone. Been subscribing for many years, but this is the first time I can recall that no car is listed.
     
  10. coachi

    coachi Formula 3

    May 1, 2002
    2,108
    SC USA
    400,000 to 550,000...i was offered over 400,000 and I know someone who bought one for 550,000.
     
  11. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2003
    9,377
    predestined
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Thanks!

    I saw a very nice newly-purchased Daytona about a week ago...was told the new owner paid around $160K for it.

    The third owner of my 330 2+2, who I bought it from, told me he got an unsolicited $90K as-is offer in '89 or so...I paid $32K in late '02. I have no reason to doubt what he told me, he was a very honest, respectable guy and I'm familiar with what happened in the Ferrari market then. (I gave up on ever owning one.)

    BTW -- Your Daytona looks great.
     
  12. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
    9,052
    CHNDLR
    Full Name:
    Scott

    Did you ever get the photos attached so we can see it?
     
  13. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    3,489
    I'm unable to attach pictures. Hoping someone can help dry4re post pics of his Daytona.
    Ed
     
  14. sjvalin

    sjvalin Formula Junior

    Aug 31, 2004
    713
    Nevada County, CA
    Full Name:
    Steve Valin
    Email any pictures to me and I'll resize and post them: sjvalin@yahoo.com

    -steve
     
  15. toto70_0

    toto70_0 F1 Rookie

    Sep 14, 2004
    3,720
    NETHERLANDS
    We will have one here in Holland by the end of next week.

    1972 EURO version red/black

    If anybody is interested please contact me.

    TOTO70_0
     
  16. Morgie

    Morgie Formula Junior

    May 3, 2005
    427
    SF Bay/Carmel
    So where are prices now -- asking prices seem to be averaging 230K in the FML. What is going on behind the scenes for cars that don't make it to market but exchange hands privately?
     
  17. toto70_0

    toto70_0 F1 Rookie

    Sep 14, 2004
    3,720
    NETHERLANDS
    #92 toto70_0, May 9, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here in Europe the dealers are paying for Daytona's between €140.000 and € 160.000. But there are not that many on the market anymore so they might go up in price again because there is a demand for them.
    People are realising that a daytona is cheap for the kind of car you get.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran

    Feb 23, 2006
    6,346
    Italia
    i have seen a daytona, not plexi last saturday while i was going for a ride
    great car , i like it
     
  19. coachi

    coachi Formula 3

    May 1, 2002
    2,108
    SC USA
    dont know what they are worth, but having owned them since the eightees, i would have a hard time letting go of one of them. I have entertained thoughts of swapping for an F 430 spider...which lists for some 230,000. I havent advertised nor am I anxious to make such a trade. I think in ten years daytonas will be worth 500,000 and the F 430 would be used cars for less than 100,000
     
  20. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    Todays values? Who knows. FML asking prices are $230K or so average, but we are once again seeing the same cars for sale month after month after month. Are asking prices way up but selling prices not so much? Have sellers gotten ahead of the market and now cars are just not trading hands?

    Is a price crash looming? Could I perhaps once again entertain hopes of buying a basket case project car for $75K or so to build a vintage racing Comp replica?????





    Terry
     
  21. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    13,590
    The Daytona, red/black, S/N 16925, that comes up for sale at Bonhams Monaco on 20th May 2006 is estimated at Euro € 100'000 to 120'000, which is US$ 125'000 to US$ 145'000. Buyer's premium not included, of course.
    Marcel Massini
     
  22. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    13,590
    PLEASE don't do this. Don't ruin a genuine Ferrari to build another replica.
    Thank you.
    Marcel Massini
     
  23. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155

    Oh brother.

    So if you take a Ferrari Daytona and you build it into a race car its no longer a Ferrari Daytona?

    Is it fair to assume that all the non-factory built Daytona racecars from back in the day are fakes and no longer Ferraris?

    How is it that Michael Sheehan is racing his non-Ferrari replica in the Shell Ferrari Historics series? When did they start allowing fakes in?

    I would really enjoy racing a Daytona. I dont have $2M+ to buy a factory Comp coupe. I also like to build my own racecars, largely because I dont trust anyone else to do it right. So if I want to race a Daytona, it will be a clapped out street car built into a racecar by ME.

    I find it flat out hilarious that noted Ferrari historians and marque experts consider the modification of a Ferrari street car for competition work to be the destruction of a true Ferrari and the creation of a fake. Never mind that competition use was the very foundation of Ferrari and what Enzo cared about most..... no, the tradition of Enzo is DEAD and the ultra-anal ultra-rich, "wipe them with a diaper but NEVER drive them in anger" crowd now prefers to ooooh and ahhhhh about how perfect a paint job can be.

    Oh well, some of us enthusiasts out here still understand that they are CARS and as such they are meant to be driven and even RACED.




    Terry
     
  24. Vintage V12

    Vintage V12 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2004
    1,438
    Fantasy Junction has 3 Daytonas for sale.
     
  25. mrknowitallf40

    mrknowitallf40 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2005
    294
    Marcel, I can appreciate your position on all things Ferrari and you do the vintage Ferrari community a great service. I do tend to agree with Terry about modifying cars for competition. If you cannot buy it, build it. How about a hypothetical question; The year is 1962. A Ferrari mechanic decides that he must have a 250 GTO but he does not have the money to buy one from the factory. Through his network of relatives he manages to trade his mothers cooking for all of the parts he needs from the original suppliers. At home he builds a "car" that looks like a GTO. He does not drive the car because he cannot get it licensed . However it is a complete and running example of a car that looks like a GTO. It is discovered in original condition by his grand chrildren who intend to sell the car. Today, how would you value the car? For it's parts, for its condition, or because of the time in which it was built. I would prefer a new replica GTO because the quality and workmanship are better yet I still get the experience of driving a time capsule. I think it is crazy that the value of the car is more in its history than in the cost of parts. A GTO replica can be made using the exact specification parts that were available in 1962. If you took a GTO out of the factory in 1962,and showed it a Pebble Beach, the average spectator would be disgusted. An original car is just not up to the current restored car standard. I thought the idea was to preserve the past and not reinvent it. No Ferrari ever left the factory with the level of preparation that these restored cars have. This over restoration gives people the impression that all Ferrari's are so prepared. I am suprised that you have not commented on this. These cars should be restored to original condition using original materials and techniques. It is also amazing how many people that are in the Ferrari parts and restoration business that are involved in the "judging". These over restorations are gross modifications of the original, even worse than a competition conversion. An over restoration is a misrepresentation of what the car was originally meant to be. How is this different than a replica? The words quality and Ferrari can only be used in the same sentence to describe the engine. What do you know about Daytona 13837? What relatinship do you have with Ferrari? Thanks for your reply.
     

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