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Daytona Values

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by 328KNB, Mar 8, 2005.

  1. pauls

    pauls Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2004
    417
    I have been following Daytonas since I bought mine a few years ago. They seem to be falling into two categories. The no frills, low mileage perfect performers and the drivers. A driver can be had for $125,000. The low mileage, factory correct pearls are up to $180-$200,000. Tom S. is right to say these top level cars are selling at the $200,000 range. Terry S. is also right that factory correct Daytonas are getting harder to find. The 3/05 issue of SCM listed at Bonhams auction a condition 1 Daytona for ~$179,000. No mention of tool kit, manual pouch, manuals, etc. It has been said that the number of Daytonas manufactured will kill its rise. I believe that perfect (is there such a thing?) Daytonas will easily settle into the $250,000 range in the next two years because they are rare. That of course will make it realistic to buy a driver and invest some restoration money in one. The result is that (like the Lusso) the whole Daytona market will gradually rise. But I still feel that the number of Daytonas produced will somewhat retard it's upward growth. BTW we have added a new section to the DaytonaRegistry.com website at http://daytonaregistry.com/originality/. I would appreciate your comments and suggestions. It was launched yesterday and we still have some bugs in it. It will continue to evolve as Lance adds pictures and information to this web page.
     
  2. shaughnessy

    shaughnessy Formula 3
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    Apr 1, 2004
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    Thomas E Shaughnessy
    Not the case, not stunning, ORIGINAL!!!!

    One car was at Cavallino this year yellow 4000 documented miles repainted at Shelton when new

    the other 6000 miles from new, all original bill of sale notorized, handbooks (new),tools,Voxon some stress cracks in the paint, and brakes locked and rear exhaust cans weak, Needy somewhat, what a concept!!!!!

    Both unadvertised!!!! Like many great cars that sell. Never hit the comps with FML, never advertised
    Both went to seasoned, appreciative Ferrari collectors

    Tom Shaughnessy
    Originality Freak

    BTW the gold 9000 mile car from Colorado that showed up from Concourso Italiano 3 years ago for 185,000 back then. Unadvertised again!

    All cars mentioned are special cars, unreplacable
    There is a Blue 2000ish mile US car floating around the North East for 250K
     
  3. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Honorary

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    I think what Tom is pointing out is very true. As time goes on the number of unmolested original cars is fewer and fewer. Restoration means different things to different people.
    Those who were at the FCA Concours in Aug. saw a vast range of restoration. IMO some of it had little to do with what these cars were originally. Those that agree with me are will to pay up for cars that are original or restored in a way that they look original. Maintained properly is always IMO better than restored but the number of properely maintained original cars is VERY small. IMO the number of properly restored cars is also small.
     
  4. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
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    Texas!
    Jim, isn't it a fine line between love and hate? I agree with you about over restored cars. They sure look pretty; but authentic, not hardly.

    On the other hand, I have seen some folks become "Originality Nutballs." They argue over whether this thingabob had a chrome surround or black plastic. The truth is that not even "their hairdresser knows for sure." Luigi would just rummage around in the parts bin until he found something that worked. (Indeed, sometimes it didn't work.)

    Personally, I'd like to see a "Zeitgeist" standard. You know, a spirit of the times kind of thing. Where somebody can walk up to a car and say, "Yeah, yeah, that's it. Damn, I saw one of these cars when I was 16, and it blew my mind."

    However, I don't think that the restoration types will go for this. They make their living building pretty cars.

    Dale
     
  5. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    I agree totally. IMO guys reproducing clock tags are just as bad as guys aligning screw heads. You bought a Daytona in 68. You read the clock tag. you tossed it. That's original.
     
  6. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    Jan 5, 2002
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    Don
    I tend to agree with you guys, although if I had the clock tag for one of my cars I would certainly save it!

    I believe the key point is that while these cars can be restored many times to whatever standard (and we can argue about that standard), they are only ORIGINAL once. Hence, the premium placed on original cars as opposed to restored cars.
     
  7. mikegt

    mikegt Karting

    Apr 4, 2004
    72
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Mike Gilfillan
    Everyone (including me) can speculate what the prices should and could be, but the real price is determined when one sells.

    I'll be curious to see if the $140,000 car in FML sells quickly or hangs around for more than a few months.

    - mike
     
  8. shaughnessy

    shaughnessy Formula 3
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    I doubt it will last til the end of this week if it is any good. I have been asked twice today about the car, who cares about my opinion, anyway.

    Snow is on the ground in Colorado, may take an extra day or two.

    Tom Shaughnessy
    San Clemente CA
     
  9. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    Aug 1, 2002
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    L. Wayne Ausbrooks
    My error. I meant to add, "or a complete time capsule."
     
  10. shaughnessy

    shaughnessy Formula 3
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    Your correction is acknowledged and noted

    Tom Shaughnessy
    San Clemente CA
     
  11. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    Aug 1, 2002
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    I feel better now.:)
     
  12. shaughnessy

    shaughnessy Formula 3
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    Owner realized he priced the car too cheap, sealed bids now!
    140,000 does not BUY IT

    Tom Shaughnessy
     
  13. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155

    Dang. When I saw that ad in FML last week, I thought it looked pretty damn cheap. Seemed like one a dealer could pick up and flip for $20K in a week or so. I would love to know what it actually looks like and how much it really sells for.


    Terry
     
  14. mikegt

    mikegt Karting

    Apr 4, 2004
    72
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Mike Gilfillan
    Tom definitely seems to have the inside scoop -- and what good news it is. Thank you for sharing the details and keeping even the skeptics in us up to speed. Please let me know when you find out what the car in FML actually sold for. You can bet that I'll give you a call when I'm ready to sell my Daytona (probably will take a few more years though).

    Terry -- I still would like to get together and trade Daytona stories. I was sick as a dog for 3 weeks with a stomach flu when we tried to meet at Italian Day. I've got the electrical bugs worked out on the Spyder and can drive it up to your house when the rain clears. Call me on my cell if you're ever near 285 & 75 with your Daytona. I work out of my house and am around most of the time.

    - mike
     
  15. shaughnessy

    shaughnessy Formula 3
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    175,000 alledegely offered by two people and
    a 178,000 offer then extended

    ALLEGEDELY !!!!
    It ain't over til it is paid for!!!

    Tom Shaughnessy
    "Inquiring minds"
    San Clemente CA
     
  16. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    3,651
    Currently at $190K
    NOT sealed bids.
     
  17. dbcooper

    dbcooper Formula Junior

    Feb 7, 2005
    278
    Costa Mesa,Ca.
    Full Name:
    Tim Romero
    For whatever reason,I have been working on Daytonas this past year or so like never before.The majority of this work has been to make an original car a driver and to make the marginal a/c system blow cold air marginally.I finished one up just today(friday 3/18/05)and have 2 more waiting.lots of activity with Daytonas happening now.Why? "I dont know"






    "Bailing out of a 707 at nite,over a forrest,is a bad idea"
     
  18. Randy

    Randy Formula 3
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    There is a 1969 Daytona on consignment at Fantasy Junction for $138,000.00. According to the salesperson, it has a slight oil leak (that scares the hell out of me), an issue with the brakes, no books, no records, no tools and is not the original color. I offered $125,000, pending an inspection and the owner turned me down without even countering. I might be crazy, but even if Daytona prices are on the rise, cars in this condition should still be on the low end. Correct me if I'm wrong and I'll consider offering more
     
  19. pauls

    pauls Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2004
    417
    I feel that, as pointed out by Tom, Daytonas are starting to rise again. They have been undervalued for years. We have all read this. Even if you needed an engine rebuild at $35,000 (I believe that is correct) and everything else is in great condition you would be still ahead. I live close to Fantasy Junction and have sold cars there. I would be happy to look at it for you if you do not live close...an excuse to look at those beautiful cars.
     
  20. Randy

    Randy Formula 3
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    Thanks. I live in the midwest, so it is impractical to personally view the car. If you get a chance, that would be great.
     
  21. pauls

    pauls Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2004
    417
    For what it is worth (and it may not be worth much) I own http://daytonaregistry.com/. I'll be happy to go over today. If it is an original Daytona it probably won't last long.
     
  22. Randy

    Randy Formula 3
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    Terrific site. If I wind up getting a Daytona, I'm sure I'll use it frequently. Thanks
     
  23. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    Nov 11, 2003
    5,972
    Central NJ
    "Bailing out of a 707 at nite,over a forrest,is a bad idea"

    Dear DB,

    You're right about a 707. That's why you chose to jump out of a 727.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  24. billb

    billb Formula Junior
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Jun 4, 2001
    407
    Shorewood, IL
    Full Name:
    Bill Badurski
    Beware of Daytonas with a "slight oil leak". I've repaired several. The problem is usually a cracked timing case cover. The chain covers, when pryed off at an angle, will fractured the case at the rear center stud. The casting is thin there, and easily broken due to manhandling. Repair requires an engine out job.
     
  25. coachi

    coachi Formula 3

    May 1, 2002
    2,108
    SC USA
    Those of us who had bought and painstakingly taken care of daytonas throughout the years know how expensive it is to fix anything porperly on these cars. And the time and energy spent to find missing parts is unbelievable. I have been looking for a steering column rubber grommet and finally found one. Not expensive, but a 65 dollar part has cost me at least twenty hours of looking and calling. Not to mention the years it took to find two original hood struts to replace the aftermarket ones, seat belts to replace some gastly looking ones, original headrests, had to me mkanufactured in Italy and waited for 8 months....etc...etc....I bought my daytonas in the mid eightees, when a decent unrestored model would sell for some 160,000. Since then, I have spent tens of thousands on this, that and the other. In a year or so, 200,000 would sound cheap for these cars. I contemplated selling one for a while, but decided instead to build a new large garage to make comfortable room for my cars, so I can just jump into one after disconnecting the trickle charger, fire it up and take off. No more moving cars out of each other's way and dropping the lift to drive the car on top.
     

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