cylinder head gasket, searching advice

If you are using the currently available Elring head gaskets that is your problem. The material was changed and they no longer work. It has been a widely experienced issue.

 

Hi Peter, another possibility for a leak from oil circuit to coolant circuit is located underneath the oil filters, this post explains:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/oil-in-coolant.376670/#post-141619076

I am not saying this is what's affecting you car, but this scenario is easy to check (compared to disassembling the heads).

 

What type of head gasket did you use? Elring?

You can apply VHT copper gasket. I got this as a recommendation from very experienced Ferrari guys, one of them here on fchat (turbo-joe).

High quality gaskets are available from Murray Glegg in Australia as recommended by Tom Yang.

Christopher

 

I would never use any RTV assembling engine components. The part that squishes out the side of the gasket will cure like the the rest and can form little balls and plug oil galleys
The original Hylomar developed by DuPont and Rolls Royce is a non-hardening material; if some squishes into the oil side the material does not harden and can not clog galleys. Now finding the ORIGINAL Hylomar is difficult. Permatex had to revise their packaging and no longer call their non-hardening material Hylomar but they reference "like Hylomar" or similar on the package. If cost is under $10 it is not the original. You can find the original on line for about $40 for a tube. It can be applied hours or days ahead of assembly. I used this to seal the high pressure oil galley going for the iron block to the aluminum head on a Cosworth BDR motor; the oil was weeping externally.
An alternate if you do not have a gap to fill is to use "Gasket Maker". It is painted on both surfaces and goes tacky but you do not have to assemble immediately. When assembled the two tacky surfaces make the seal. I used this approach to seal a supercharger manifold on an AMG.

Reading the other replies it sounds like getting the right head gasket is the real issue, but if in doubt for the one area of the gasket use Hylomar or Gasket Maker. One man's opinion.
Ken

 

Good day Brian,

Can you recommend a supplier or gasket manufacturer of head gaskets that will work properly? I ask, as I am planning on some preventative head work (replacing exhaust valves with SS, etc) and so I will need some head gaskets that I have confidence in.

Thanks in advance!

Cheers,

Sam

 

Speak to Murray Glegg, murray@gleggman.com

He produces head gaskets for all types of Ferrari that work.

 

I promise you ,talk to Murray before trying anything else.
Brilliant engineer just nearly finished BB nut and bolt.
Not just waterjet cutting he has many milspec contracts going in place right now

 

Elring is .....
I was taught not to use bad words;-)

Do not try Elring again, bern there myself...

Use other gaskets, e.g. Victor Reinz or better as I already recommended Murray Glegg. Speak to him, it is worth it.

You can use Hylomar but I prefer VHT copper gasket after using/ comparing both.

If you use Hylomar use the spray form and apply it evenly to the complete gasket.

Christopher

 

Murray Glegg <murray@gleggman.com>

He is in Australia and makes a very good quality head gasket.

 

No head gasket should have any sealant or coating applied.

 

Your conclusion is faulty. Don't bother, Elring is garbage. Besides head gaskets should be applied with nothing on them.......period.

 

What kind of head gasket is he making? Glegg manufacturering looks like a sheetmetal company. So is he making MLS gaskets? If your block heads surfaced for composite make sure surface roughness jives with what you need for MLS which is typically smoother. A big mismatch causes leaks. Some mls makers build for various roughnesses.

 

He makes composite gaskets as a side project from his metal business. He makes other items as well.

 

I learned to not use anything on HG's. But when I was responsible for doing the job (meaning if it leaked I was doing it again) I always used copper spray including my own projects. I saw no reason to not use it except some say it makes the heads harder to remove. I have not seen or read anything negative about using the copper spray. People who frown on it never say why? I was taught not to use it but never learned why.

I have never had a leak even on composite HG race motors I built using spray. We leak test and compression test these motors during race season and never have leaks during their service life. I have never had a leak on Ferraris but I also have not done many Ferrari rebuilds myself in a number of years so not personally current. I pretty much let the rebuilder do everything so he is on the hook for problems unless I'm racing the motor. The last one I did used Elring gasket right from FNA during the time DaveHelms reported this problem on Fchat and resorted to gaskets of his own sourcing or design. He was basically saying at the time"hey guys...there is a problem for years and I finally got a solution" , when most of us did not know we had a problem. I was ignorant of a problem but I was using copper spray which seems to disguise any problem. Today, there are a few others who will remain nameless routinely rebuilding motors with FNA sourced Elring HG's having no problems but using copper spray. I know this because we have had that discussion. Hummm.....

The other thing is Ferrari is presumably still using these defective Elring HGs on their newly delivered cars. For some reason these new cars are not suffering HG failures. In fact we hear of no HG failures in the old fleet of Ferraris going back decades where block and heads have not been violated for other reasons. Why is that? What is Ferrari factory doing differently using the same Elring HG that isn't being done outside the factory?

The other curious thing is that every autoparts store has copper spray right on the shelf. It goes bad like old paint in a spraycan so there has to be some turnover there. For some reason it is always available for a job that frankly isn't done very often vs all the water pumps brake rotors etc... To me that means it sells or the stores would not have it. We could all be herd animals following each other off the cliff or maybe the stuff works?

I sure would like to see some science...

 

Ive been using Cometic composite gaskets as long as I can remember and zero problems ever. Not so much as a drip on a fresh build pressure test prior to install. They have no sealant beads around any of the ports, just a simple basic gasket that's the right hardness for my liking and it does the job whether the block was decked or not. Liner protrusion is always checked of course and corrected if needed. They make them to order, they ask for my bore size so we keep my quench area down rather than a safe oversize and desired thickness. $189 a pair too.

 

Good day Gentlemen,

Thank you very much! I chatted with Gleggy a few years ago (wow time sure flies) and so I will ensure to chat to him about some of his head gaskets!.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Hi to all,

I have been asked to post here concerning the gaskets.

Our manufacturing list extends from the 195, 225, 250 inside plug, 250 outside plug,275, 308 2V, 308 QV, 330,365, 512BB, 246 Dino, 206 fiat, 130 fiat.

Also, the Lambo gaskets to suit the Countach, Espada, Miura. And no, I haven't turned to the dark side.

Standard gasket configuration and bore sizes apply. However, for badly corroded heads and blocks, where more material has to be removed, oversize 2mm gaskets can be ordered.

Also, if oversize bores are being used for a "hotted" up version of your steed oversized fire rings can be installed for custom applications. Gaskets are sold in pairs (1 set) sealed in boxed container and you are buying direct from the manufacturer.

Paul is spot on as usual, liner height is critical; as it is known that even from the factory liners have been known to be installed incorrectly. So even if you don't use my gaskets check your heights.

It’s not the first time I have been contacted to establish if my gaskets can work miracles because a shop has machined the deck and liners dead flat only to realize the enormity of their mistake.

No product can overcome bad work practices. My website is non- operational at the moment (apologies), so if you need to contact me my email is - murray@gleggman.com

I hope this helps

 

Murray's brother is the waterjet bloke.
Murray is a diehard Ferrari enthusiast who is a brilliant engineer and designer.

Again murray@gleggman.com

Ammendment: I have just got off the phone to my and Murrays mechanic Enzotech.
He advises that he he's never had a problem using Elring IF you spray them with Hylomar.

 

That may have been the case when he was using them, which I might add was some time ago, as in more than a few years.
Marc no longer uses them and only uses my gaskets on his engine builds. Fact.

 

If you've got a big battery, just crank the engine without ignition. This will give the pump time to push some oil, before actually firing the engine. I've got a geared starter which makes this easier. I am only doing this when the car has remained in storage for a long period.

 

Peter...I don't even know what motor you are building but in general all kinds of bad unpredictable things happen when liner protrusion spec is not followed. Then running the motor dry for nearly a minute sounds catastrophic. I have never hard that happen so have no clue how much damage could be done. I would start over. The most important step in rebuilding a motor is the one you are on and every part has to be in spec. You have to get oil pressure on startup similar to when you just changed the oil. Before startup prime the oil pump by filling the system just as if the pump has run. I have always found a place to inject oil under pressure to fill a system. Some motors you can turn the oil pump. Some fill it and crank motor not allowing it to start watching for oil pressure rise.

 

Hello,
we tried some gaskets
Only Elring + Dirko HT red is working properly
Frank