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Coupe OR Spider

Discussion in 'SF90 Stradale' started by Tommy Boy, Dec 27, 2020.

  1. Tommy Boy

    Tommy Boy Karting

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    #1 Tommy Boy, Dec 27, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2020
    Which is the better choice if depreciation matters? Could either one appreciate if done right? Are both going to tank in resale? This is about resale only.

    Dealer wants me to get both but knows better than to push. This will be my first F-purchase since joining F-Chat and I must solicit help! Too much insight and knowledge on this board.
     
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  3. Twosherpaz

    Twosherpaz Formula Junior
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    Track use the lighter car = coupe. Wife wanting to go with you for a drive = spider unless your wife is like mine and hates having her hair messed up. Purely resale value? Usually the spider because you can cruise the city and let everyone see how cool you think you are.

    I’m not doing the Assetto Fiorano pack on the spider since it is not a track car. But I think adding that pack makes those coupes with it more collectible and valuable and appreciable than the rest.
     
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  4. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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    I imagine lots of coupe will be traded for spider so in 1-2 years there will be lots of choice and imho few buyers with resultant depreciation - if you are that worried about depreciation buy neither new as I can't see the market for spiders being that much stronger in 3-4 years time
     
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  5. mkraft3003

    mkraft3003 Formula Junior

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    If you are a serious buyer and about to spend 600k on a car does it really matter what strangers on the internet think? Figure any car you will buy will depreciate. If you like the car and you want it, buy it. Who knows what the future will hold for anyone.
     
  6. Tommy Boy

    Tommy Boy Karting

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    Actually yes - on this board, there are strangers who have more insight into Ferrari than anything we can learn on our own. I see information that I would not have believed available on a public forum before I joined this board. I see very clear thinking on car pricing, I see information on new models under development that my dealer doesn't even care about, info on production numbers, etc. I received recall info on my 812 from a poster on this board - which to this day my dealer denies.

    With respect to pricing and depreciation on the SF-90 Coupe, there are several things we have never seen prior to the SF-90. We have a hyper-car with super car pricing. We have a car that Ferrari could have brought out as a limited run of 499 units - at higher price - and the entire run would have been oversubscribed. We have a car that has supply chain issues, and may end up being produced in far fewer numbers than originally anticipated. We have a car that is Ferrari's top of the line, in terms of tech and $$. All these things are going to play into the depreciation formula in ways that we have not seen with other F cars. On top of all that, we have the Covid shake up of the company's future.

    With the SF-90 Spider, we have potentially higher demand than for the coupe, and possibly fewer units produced.

    Wouldn't you agree that this unique combination of factors makes for an interesting exercise in predicting price fluctuations on the car?

    I am a definite buyer for either the coupe or the spider, any I won't hang on long. This board's collective insight can help a buyer decide which of the two models will hold its value better.
     
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  8. mkraft3003

    mkraft3003 Formula Junior

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    You also have people that are very vocal that have never owned a supercar before or even a luxury car before. They would appear to own lots of cars and have lots of opinions but in fact are just trolling. You can speculate on what the future will do but it is exactly that, pure speculation. I don’t think there are many people, including myself, that make these purchases as an investment. Plan on losing money and buy the car if it excites you and stirs the soul. If you are already worrying about depreciation on a 600k purchase you should find something else to spend it on. Anyway, good luck and hope you get some better advice than mine and you can make an informed decision.
     
  9. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey Formula 3
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    #7 Lukeylikey, Jan 1, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2021
    It’s quite a hard question. I can only tell you the reasons for my own decision. I ordered an AF pack coupe at launch. The car is now locked in and so no chance to convert to a spider. I saw the spider a few weeks ago and loved it, I also buy open cars and have a Pista Spider and 812 GTS. I often have closed coupes too, and love cars like the Speciale and the Porsche GT products.

    Question is, if I had the choice to change would I? I think the answer is ‘maybe’. But, if I had not ordered the AF pack the answer would be ‘definitely’. I am unsure about the spider in AF pack, given its weight and the fact that you have massive power, but more than that, massive torque and weight over both axles. There are also new dampers and no bumpy road mode. Will there be scuttle shake? Our Pista spider has it, our GTS doesn’t. The mid engined chassis has no central driveshaft tunnel, which I conclude is the reason for the added stiffness on the GTS. If the SF90 AF spider is worse than the Pista Spider, the coupe is the SF90 AF car to have. But I don’t think that logic applies to the standard SF90. Theoretically my idea is to drive the coupe and put in an order for a standard spider if I don’t like the AF pack but do like the SF90 (delivery of the spider is at least a year later, so no rush exactly). However, that is probably unlikely to happen because there are some other cars I would rather order from Ferrari that I expect to be launched this year.

    So, for various reasons I guess I’ll end up owning the coupe but not the spider - its timing just didn’t fit with my plans. What does any of this mean for resale? Given the low speed at which AF cars have been coming to the UK, and the long wait for the spider, I guess it shouldn’t be too expensive to hold an AF coupe for up to a year, depending on the wider economy. Being such a new car and segment for Ferrari, it’s a little unknown though. Three years out, you would expect the spider to do better than a similar condition, age and mileage coupe. But not by more than about 5 or 10% at a guess. Remember, they will be £30-£40k more expensive to start with. If a three-year-old coupe with an original retail price of £500k would be, say, £330k, a three-year-old spider with a retail of £540k would have to be at £410k to do 10% better than the coupe (76% retained v 66% retained). That sounds too big of a gap to me, assuming similar supply. There would certainly be plenty of people not bothered about the open roof but very bothered about spending £80k less to get the coupe. If the AF spider has too much shake, the AF coupe will do better than the figures above, comparatively.
     
  10. hagen111

    hagen111 Karting

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    Saw the spider in real life and it is beautiful...as in much more beautiful than coupe.

    Resale value...it also fully depends on what Ferrari will announce as next models after SF90.
     
  11. JJ77

    JJ77 Rookie

    Oct 3, 2020
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    I would presume standard coupe would depreciate faster, AF Coupe & Standard Spider the slowest and the AF Spider, I don’t get at all... but probably the rarest when looking back in 10 years..
     
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  13. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Very interesting analysis. I have seen it reported that Ferrari say the SF90 is 30-40% stiffer depending on the direction measured than the F8 and that applies to the coupe and spider.

    I never thought about the torque tube being a structural reason why the open V12 cars are stiffer. I always thought it was just that the nature of the platform on the V12 lended itself better to extra bracing. However, this is very interesting and could indeed be a factor. Thanks for sharing.

    I agree using conventional thinking the AF pack must be stiffer and thus the SF90 Spider is not the natural fit for the AF pack. But some have reported AF pack would be brutally stiff, but some of the first driving impressions are that its surprisingly comfortable.

    So what to think- after all, most of us are taking semi-educated guesses. I tend to think like you, but then I ask myself, would Ferrari put out a car that is really so brutal as to be almost unusable- after all the level of stiffness we are imagining on a car that is a bit heavier than what we are used to in a mid engined car would mean the ride could boarder on brutal. I just don’t think Ferrari would do that. I have a feeling the standard suspension will do a great job and certainly I wouldn’t worry about ordering a car with it. And it does allow for a lifter, which is a big factor for some. It strikes me, thinking about who the target market is, and also how important a car this is for Ferrari, there is a chance they wanted to make this new suspension system standard but it may be a little rougher riding than the standard one in bumpy road mode, and (assuming) it isn’t compatible with a lifting system, they decided to offer both. Right now, this is how I see it. I interpret the likelihood is the AF pack will have better body control and it will be a little more focused in its handling but its not going to be so hard you worry about any fillings rattling out.

    If I am on anything resembling the right track then I actually think the AF on the spider could work a treat- its never going to be a track hooligan in the traditional sense, its too heavy and got too much AWD interaction, but, you could get great body control and also it seems like it will be stiffer than the other recent mid engine cars. And you get the benefit of the open roof, which does add another visceral element, which is often a criticism of the more modern cars- they’ve become almost too good. I don’t think we can expect it to banish all shake, but I would imagine its substantially improved. I still agree the coupe will be stiffer and if you are thinking along those lines, that is the one to get. I think the car is wild and look forward to experiencing it!



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  14. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    The Spider will probably retain value a bit better, but will also be more expensive to buy. One thing that sets the SF90 apart from the regular GTB vs. GTS depreciation, is the fact that they will be produced in roùghly the same numbers. Both will be fairly low volume all things considered. As for appreciation? Not in the near future. We'll see in 25 years. Currently some have made a profit selling allocations, but that's the usual game. In a few years we know what the market will do. Want an investment? Buy a painting.

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  15. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    Agreed. I'm keeping my coupè build as that is what I want. Buy the car you like, because the best value for your money will be the car that excites you the most. Will it depreciate like an F8? Not likely, but it will depreciate. For some, adding AF will give it better resale, but it is also a 12% added expense. On top of that, many will want the car with a lifter and bumpy road mode. The whole thing about a dealer saying get both is just silly, so don't fall for that one. Get the SF90 you think suits you. If that's a Spider with AF and CF wheels, that's alright. Not for me, but that's why I configured something else.

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  16. TheMayor

    TheMayor Eight Time F1 World Champ
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  17. jumpinjohn

    jumpinjohn F1 Rookie
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    Sometimes people like to ask other folks their thoughts. Isn’t that what car forums are for?


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  18. Tommy Boy

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    Very interesting. You think they will produce both in equal numbers? I guess when they get their production issues sorted out, they can produce whatever quantity they want of each.
     
  19. Tommy Boy

    Tommy Boy Karting

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    Agreed - I have stupidly fallen for that trick several times.
     
  20. Tommy Boy

    Tommy Boy Karting

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    Fantastic analysis - thank you.

    I have only had coupes and and will probably go with the Spider version of SF-90. Also - and I think there is a good chance of this - if demand doesn't materialize for the coupe as per pre-Covid projections, Ferrari may choose to limit production of the spider. To the point where it almost becomes a numbered car.
     
  21. waterking

    waterking Karting
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    Sometimes what you don't see can induce more excitement.
     
  22. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    Not sure I follow you. Here in Europe demand for the coupè was good. My dealer has not had any allocations since mid 2019. They expect the Spider to be rather popular, and interestingly enough, my dealer hinted today that the Spider might be produced in the greatest numbers.

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  23. ntatfas

    ntatfas Karting
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    As a standard production car you can only see Ferrari meeting demand in whatever ratio of coupe to spider that happens to be within the products lifespan.
     
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  24. jumpinjohn

    jumpinjohn F1 Rookie
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    The SF 90 is the first mid engine that I think looks better than the coupe with the top up.


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  25. Tommy Boy

    Tommy Boy Karting

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    What do you see now in Europe? Putting aside the initial strong response to SF-90, how strong is new demand for a US$600K car?

    In the US, I suspect dealers are scrambling trying to figure out what to do. They are not getting allocations, but they would not have the buyers if they were getting lots of high end allocations. The number of potential buyers for 600K cars is notably dented by Covid, but maybe in Europe its mostly old money that buys the top of the line. So perhaps less Covid impact.
     
  26. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    #23 Il Co-Pilota, Jan 8, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
    I have not heard of a single allocation with my dealer cancelled due to Covid. They are taking just as many orders as pre-Covid. Just to illustrate the general situation here. Real estate values have climbed, and that market is doing great as a seller's market. Copenhagen is seeing the highest prices yet. As an example, flats selling for what equates to about 1.5 mill usd in 2017, are now fetching in excess of 2 mill. Don't get me wrong, the Europe economy has been hit hard, but it looks like it is less than the US. Where I am, it is far from old money. Many are younger business owners, founders etc. If anything, the case might actually be that the "old money" have taken a harder hit here than those whom rose to prominence within the last two decades. I'm no expert, just some thoughts. Those here who have been hit the hardest, is probably the small businesses like small entrepreneurs, restaurateurs, hair dressers, cafè owners, owners of small stores, small venues etc. I'm sure it is no fun being an investor or owner of a large shopping mall either.

    As is often the case, those who cannot afford to do so pay. I don't know anyone of wealth including myself who have been affected financially in a way that matters or changes anything. I know people who have been struggling because of it, but none of them where in a position to acquire any Ferrari pre Covid. So while it has hit hard, it does not seem to hit those who can afford an SF90. Also, while an SF90 is a 600k car in the US, it is a 1.5 mill usd car here. 600k will buy you a 911 Turbo S or used 488 here. In other words. If you can afford an SF90, you are probably in a situation where Covid does not change much. This is not pricing for Europe as a whole, but cars are more expensive here, so if you can afford top shelf, you are not buying with a loan or because you see fortune in the future. You have your means secured.

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  27. Tommy Boy

    Tommy Boy Karting

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    Not sure I understand - if one has an allocation for SF-90 in Denmark, the cost is MSRP, otherwise one pays a $1M premium for a flipped car?
     
  28. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    You're forgetting that we have a tax that is roughly 150% that is added as well as 25% VAT. An SF90 in Denmatk is between 9-11 million dkr all taxes and fees included.

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