Coulthard says Ferrari at Fault | FerrariChat

Coulthard says Ferrari at Fault

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by CRG125, Jun 19, 2005.

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  1. CRG125

    CRG125 F1 Rookie

    Feb 7, 2005
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    Take a look at this quote from Coulthard which he states Ferrari were in disagreement with the Chincane. I do not if this has been posted as yet.

    DAVID COULTHARD (#14 Red Bull Racing): “We have been acting under instruction on the grounds of safety from Michelin that there was no choice to go race.” (On why chicane was not built): “I can’t answer that. I believe there was a disagreement for Ferrari to accept, and that would be the case. And obviously Charlie (Whiting) made his position on behalf of the FIA quite clear that he didn’t feel that they should have to alter the track. I think this is a unique situation. I think it was one on the grounds of safety they could have taken that stance. I know it is going to be one of these scenarios now, ‘Who should have done?’ and ‘Who could have done?’ The reality is that mature adults were not able to come to a resolution that would have allowed us to put on the show that everybody wants to see in Formula One. We wanted to go racing. It is a very sad day for this sport, I would have to say. I am so, so sorry for what we’ve done, because there was a way out. There was a way to create a solution to let us go racing. Yes, it wasn’t the fault of Bridgestone that Michelin had a problem here, but we are all traveling the same circus together and we are all working together, and there has to be a compromise that allows a way of penalizing the Michelin runners and benefiting the Bridgestone runners because of the fault that Michelin had. But this extreme of not having cars on the racetrack, there are going to be a lot of people in Formula One turned away from the sport because of this.” (About how he feels): “I feel terrible. I have a sick feeling in my stomach. I am embarrassed to be a part of this. I wish we could have found a solution that had us out here on the racetrack.” (About what he would have decided): “I absolutely respect the instructions of Michelin. They are our technical tire partner. They understand how their product operates. Do I feel fear about running on this circuit with our tire? No, not at all. I am a racer. If I had fear in my body, then I wouldn’t be out on a racetrack for starts. FIA said to me on the formation lap, ‘Let’s go racing.’ I said when we pulled away from the grid, ‘If it is turned to me to make a decision, then let’s go racing.’ But we have to respect Michelin. We have to respect the other teams for all standing by with their instructions, as well. What we have to be disappointed at is that we couldn’t come to an agreement for the good of the sport. Forget whether Ferrari are getting 16 points here or not. And they may both blow up, and then you may see two Jordans getting first and second, so it’s by no means guaranteed that they will get the points. It is just terrible that we ended up with this situation.” (About how this affects the future): “This just sets a precedent that I guess we are going to see at other times in the future. It’s unfortunate. There only are 10 teams. If we can’t find a solution that is good for the sport … The crowd there is wondering what in the hell is going on. It is embarrassing.” (More on situation): “Michelin just produced a tire that wasn't capable of running on this track, and they held their hands up and acknowledged that. Then what we tried to do is find a solution and go racing. And despite all of Michelin's efforts to find a solution with the Speedway, FIA and the Bridgestone runners, the selfishness of some has been the cost of the majority. That's why the fans are showing their disgust by throwing things on the track, and I am very sorry for them.” (About Ferrari’s disagreement with nine other teams): “Ferrari's position has been very clear. They wouldn't accept the change. And I can understand their position. They've done a good job, had a good tire, and they come here and said, ‘Why should we be penalized when others have screwed up?’ But I think it is such an unusual scenario to have so many cars not able to go Grand Prix racing. If the next race only had six cars, would the same crowd turn up? No. You want 20 cars on the grid. So sometimes you put your own selfish interest to one side for the greater good. Not to just bash on Ferrari, but to not have FIA find a solution to mediate the sport in a way that could have happy people out there is very disappointing. Even if we do come back, half the crowd in the stands today won't be back. That's for sure. Terrible, terrible situations can be recovered and now having the mistake take place, it will be a question of what actions will be taken to do damage limitation.” (About process): “The team principals were all issued a statement, or instruction, from Michelin that the tires are unsafe to compete in this race and therefore they would not accept any responsibility for any team competing if there wasn't an introduction of a chicane. So the team principals, armed with our letter, could not ask their drivers to go out and race with a known fault because of all of the legal issues of the car crashes, if a car goes into the crowd. So that's why there was a move to go and find a solution from FIA to allow a safe scenario. Give Bridgestone and Ferrari all of the points because they deserve it. They've done a better job this weekend, but once they give them all of the points, let's go and put on a show. It doesn't have to be an absolute wheel-to-wheel battle because WWF survives quite well out here with an element of show business involved. But what you have here is a joke. I'm disappointed, but I respect the team's decision, and I respect Michelin's position. All I was clarifying with the team is don't take a decision on my behalf if I can be part of the process. If you want me to be part of the process, I am going racing. If it's not a decision that is influential in that, then I will respect what they have decided. It's a credit to all of the Michelin teams that they stuck together.”
     
  2. andrewg

    andrewg F1 Rookie
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    Read the article your quoting, David Coulthard was quite clear, its Michelins fault they couldnt provide tyres, not Ferraris

    "Ferrari's position has been very clear. They wouldn't accept the change. And I can understand their position. They've done a good job, had a good tire, and they come here and said, ‘Why should we be penalized when others have screwed up?’"
     
  3. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 World Champ

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    WHo does he think he is? Somebody we give a cr@p about their opinion?
    Or is he competing in the Ron Dennis "whinge-off" with WhinePablum?
     
  4. 96cobrakid

    96cobrakid Formula Junior

    May 24, 2004
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    it would have been a "performance advatage" for Mich. teams. its not Ferrari's fault they came with bad tires. Ferrari was ready for the race everyone else prepared for
     
  5. CRG125

    CRG125 F1 Rookie

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    Thanks for the clearfication, I'm just posting any information that can help us explain this B.S. situation.
     
  6. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
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    No, it's not Ferrari's fault. They didn't have to agree with anything, just a normal race for them. Adding a chicane to change a track on raceday is just stupid. I'm a fan of Michelin and of Williams BMW and I'm glad they sat out of the race, but I'm upset that Michelin would suggest to change the track. Although changing the track would be for a non-championship points race, Ferrari made the right decision. Jordan and Minardi are not potential teams for a DC or CC, but Ferrari is (and has been over the years obviously). Why would Ferrari reduce the chances of getting more points by one less race when they're already down many points?

    All teams were looking out for their best interest, but within the RULES, the correct decision was made. Now the ethical decision is subjective, but I would've preferred that this rule for 1 set of tires to be dropped from day one. I've never liked it and I never will. ****, blowing a tire at 70mph on the freeway scares the crap out of me and I won't want to image doing that at 205 mph. I feel mostly bad for the fans, especially the ones who visited from out of town.
     
  7. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

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    This event, turn 13, have been around for 6 years. Not new.

    Michelin really screwed up big time. Going to the basic problem: Michelin. Not prepared. So were all the teams to be penalized because Michelin f####d up? NO!!!!!!!!

    Not Ferrari, not FIA, Not IMS.

    Michelin. And the 14 Michelin teams that forgot the fans make racing. Penalize the teams, penalize the drivers.

    Racing does not make the fan. The fan makes racing.
     
  8. GaryReed

    GaryReed F1 Rookie

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    I think that all of the Michelin teams should have had the option of changing their tires over this morning to the new replacement ones that Michelin had flown in from France.


    The pole positions should have been rearranged to allow the fastest qualifying Bridgestone teams on pole first, according their times on Saturday.

    Then the fastest qualifying Michelin cars would be behind them in order of their fastest qualifying times.

    That could have been their "penalty" for changing tires and the race could have proceeded as usual.

    BUT NO......

    The FIA is a bunch of stupid idiots!
     
  9. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I really hope that the stupidity of the front running teams, on Michelin tires, costs them a championship.
     
  10. Mr Payne

    Mr Payne F1 Rookie

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    Ferrari is *still* a long shot!
     
  11. kenny

    kenny Formula Junior

    Nov 9, 2003
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    Why should michelin been given any sort of options for screwing up?? along with changing the rules to accomodate their ****up?? you gotta be kidding me... if anything, what the teams running michelin tires should have done is either tell the drivers to drive slower, or set up the car more conservatively, (ie. less downforce etc.) to put less wear and pressure on the tires....

    I didn't hear Ferrari and bridgestone crying technicalities earlier in the season when they were getting their asses kicked...
     
  12. crazynova23

    crazynova23 Formula Junior

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    i honestly think the best decision would have been to add the chicane, but only the teams with bridgestone tires got points, it would still be a race, but lets say ferrari finished 4th and 7th, but they had the 1st 2 cars running bridestone tires, then they get the points for 1st and and 2nd place finishes, that would have worked out the same way in points while kept the race entertaining for fans...
     
  13. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Ferrari (again) while technically correct showed no understanding of sporting concepts.

    They play to win and do not care about the consequences ... just like when they forced RB to let MS win at Austria.

    I do feel that even more people would respect Ferrari if they, while winning, showed more of a sportsmanship concept. I guess this year the chips are down and thus Ferrari wanted the points ... fair enough, but for many it will be Ferrari that spoilt the show.

    Pete
     
  14. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran

    Oct 13, 2001
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    This is the best Quote of the day.

    Ferrari won today at the cost of showing poor spirit in their biggest road car sales market.

    Not Ferrari's fault. But when you have the other teams down... Give them a way to save face and have a race ( there are other ways to make sure you get all the points this weekend ) without calling off the race for 80% of the teams, and 100% of the fans.
     
  15. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Of COURSE the root fault is with Michelin, but people are saying they are the reason the show was not put on... yes and no... in circumstances like this, don't you sometimes have to try to do your best to salvage a situation? It's not like Michelin declared the tires unsafe after 2 laps and pulled them in. They acknowledged the problem, admitted it, gave their opinion and tried to find a resolution. It seems Ferrari and the FIA were not willing to let any resolution pass. The proposed resolution (let the other teams run but not give them points) was blocked by the FIA who said if they put a chicane in, they would pull the sanction of the race. That's some major hardball by the FIA and I blame them for ultimately not letting the show go on. Had the chicane been put in, and Michelin runners not gotten points, the race would have still been fun to watch, Ferrari still would have won, and it would be much less of a black mark on the sport. Michelin would still have the same amount of shame, but at least there would have been a race.

    I blame the FIA more than Ferrari, because it seems like even IF Ferrari had agreed to the chicane, the FIA was still going to pull the sanction of the race. Sometimes sh*t happens and you can't do anything about it. Yeah, Michelin should have, could have, and all that, but when it comes down to it, penalizing the entire sport and all the fans in the MOST important venue for F1 was a stupid decision. A resolution could have been reached. The FIA forced the issue and we ended up with the stupidest farce of a "race" I've ever witnessed. It doesn't make Ferrari look good, it doesn't make Jordan look good, and it doesn't make Minardi look good. In the end, the championship will forever be tainted. If MS wins, there will always be an asterisk next to his result if it would have been different had he not gotten the points for this race.

    When the situation occurred, the MOST important thing should have been "OK, this sucks, but what can we do TOGETHER to try to salvage an enjoyable show from all this?". Had Michelin runners been denied points, nobody could say the track was changed to benefit one team. The stories would still be scathing on Michelin but the bottom line would be it was changed for safety and the Michelin runners WERE penalized. People are so intent on sticking to the absolute letter of the law. Well, we all speed right? Don't circumstances come into play? Why must we insist on strict adherence to the rules at the expense of the sport? I've seen plenty of situations where the rules were bent to make the show better. Remember teams not finishing a qual lap so they could change engines? They put a stop to that REAL quick even though it was legitimate according to the letter of the law. If something comes up that would be very damaging to the whole sport, accomodation should be made while preserving the advantage of those who did not make the mistake and penalizing those who did make the mistake. That could have been done and a race still have been held. That it did not was 20% Ferraris stubbornness and 80% the FIA's fault.
     
  16. giago

    giago Formula Junior

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    FERRARI didn't called off any race.
    FIA has rules, and the must be acomplished. NOT MATTER WHAT.
    MICHELIN, didn't do it in several ways. and they were the only ones that decided not to run. At the end, nobody stop them to do it.

    FERRARI, deserved to win, they didn't show a poor spirit as you say. You should be thanking them to be 2 of the only 6 that decided to race.
    Plus, one of the rules they (michelin) are arguing about, is a rule that was only made to STOP the Ferrari Leading in the F1, which the one that says that you can't change tires. supossedly to save money or something like that.
    Now it seems it didn't worked right?
     
  17. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I don't get how this rule was designed to stop Ferrari.

    Was Ferrari winning because their tires were better but were wearing out faster? No. So how could this rule possibly have been aimed at Ferrari?

    Ferrari is known to have the best relationship with their tire supplier. They were probably best equipped to develop a new tire. Remember the Michelins that were better than the Bridgestones and Ferrari complained they expanded during the race and violated the size regulation? After the change they were not nearly so competitive. So if anything it was shown that Bridgestone were better at developing tires than Michelin. So Michelin would be at a disadvantage when developing a totally new tire.

    So how again was this rule aimed at Ferrari? I think it should be changed back - no tire changes is stupid, but saying it was directed at Ferrari is writing revisionist history in light of Ferrari not stacking up well to Michelin runners.
     
  18. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

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    I dont think Ferrari is at fault ... here is what Michael and Rubens had to say about this

    Q: (Curt Cavin - Indianapolis Star) I understand that you did not make the decision but can you tell my why Ferrari was not in favour of having a chicane put in at the last minute?
    MS: I tell you one story, not so long ago. In Monza we had the death of a marshal and all of us drivers agreed we would want yellow flags for the first two chicanes, and there was no less than two or three team owners that told their drivers ‘you will not respect the yellow flag, just ignore what you have said or not said, we want you to race and we force you to race’ and it is the same people who have been on the other side today. So, Formula One is a tough business, we are working very hard and as I mentioned before we had a tyre that was quicker but we didn’t use it because we knew what was going to face us here. I am not saying the others purposefully chose something wrong, but whatever it is, it is their problem, not our problem. I don’t think you can ask the people who are not responsible for it to take the responsibility.


    Q: Michael and Rubens, I only want to know if it's true that this morning you agreed with the other drivers that a chicane was needed.
    MS: No, we didn't agree on anything like this. It is not our position to agree, it's the FIA's position to agree on this, not us.
    RB: I mean, if I had changed one of the corners in Bahrain, my tire would have finished, it wouldn't be in such a problem and I probably would have finished even on the podium. So why would we have to agree to that? People think, okay, you put in a chicane, but we haven't tested with that chicane so that could have been even more dangerous. If you take a different line and people spin to the other side, crash into the side wall, how can we do it? It's silly.
     
  19. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Ultimately they were not at fault... even if they had agreed to the chicane, the FIA was not going to let it happen or they would pull the sanction and Ferrari would lose the points. POSSIBLY if they had agreed then the FIA would have realized all the teams want a race and caved in, but thats just speculation.

    Unfortunately Ferrari was just as punished by this as everyone else was. They won but people won't see it as a win. It will be just like the time MS passed RB at the finish line. At least on that one, he gave up the race the next time around so it evened out. This time there will be no such evening-out in the eyes of the fans.

    Ferrari should be really POed at the FIA... the US is their biggest market and they ended up looking bad and getting booed. I'm sure Luca isn't happy about that. I know Ferrari fans (myself included) were not happy about that. I want MS to win the championship but just like he said, "who wants a win like this?".
     
  20. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    If you do not understand why the fans are pissed with Ferrari then well ... how can I try and explain? (insert picture of Pete banging his head against the wall ;)).

    Ferrari was the only team that ultimately stopped Michelin teams from running. Yes they were going to break rules, but 9 teams said okay ... Ferrari didn't. Even the chicane idea, Ferrari was the only team to say no.

    Again while Ferrari are technically correct ... the fans missed out on a race (even if more contrived than normal) because Ferrari would not play.

    Ferrari put winning at all cost above winning in a sporting way. They have demonstrated this over and over with the BS handicapping RB (although RB does this to himself pretty well anyway ;)).

    I am sure there was an option discussed where Michelin teams would have taken on such a large penalty that Ferrari would have won anyway ... thus same result but more cars playing on the track.

    Pete
     
  21. TinaDK

    TinaDK F1 World Champ

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    Exactly my words!!!!!!!!!! People seems to forget that! Ferrari was just told so solve their problems... nobody talked about boycutting the rules during their troubles!!! :)
     
  22. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    What troubles?

    There is a difference in one team suddenly not having performance and 75% of the grid being empty.

    Like I said (somewhere) technically what happened was dead right, but for the spectator it sucked. Ferrari was given the option of racing with a chicane and only Bridgestone shod cars taking home points ... they and only they, ie. Jordan and Minardi were in with the Michelin teams, refused.

    Ferrari do not understand sportsmanship IMO.
    Pete
    ps: You are also a little one eyed ;) ... Ferrari are close to the number one protester on the grid. Why do you think the Michelin tyres a couple of years ago had to be changed? ... Ferrari and Bridgestone protested, etc.

    Ferrari are no squeaky clean, innocent little virgin ... they know the rules and constantly demonstrate that winning is all that matters to them, How? ... well they could not care less.

    I am pretty sure that they know heaps about those Renault's and McLaren's and if they can find any way of disqualifying them ... well they would. And they have the full right to do so, but it just looks bad :(.

    Heck I'd be worried if I was Todt's or MS's grandmother ;) :D
     
  23. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    If the Michelin teams would have raced but noyt for points, would you have called that a race?! It would have been a farce too in my eyes. Stick to the rules, simple. The problem is that Michelin deliberately explored the edge and compromised safety with it. It's their responsibility to do so but it was a result of a stupid rule (no tyre changes).
     
  24. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

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    I might have heard wrong but didn't the announce team say something about Ferrari agreeing to the change? Actually in this case i really don't care about who's right or wrong, it is of no consequense. What troubles me is the total disregard for the fans and to all the people that went and had to pay good money to see a half a$$ed race, i'm very sorry. Everyone is to blame here for what they have caused .
     
  25. flyingboa

    flyingboa Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2003
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    One thing amazes me. Forget one second who is guilty for what, try to consider another aspect.
    At a certain point in time Friday Michelin realizes that tyres cannot survive the all race UNDER MAXIMUM STRESS CONDITION. They say that, under this stress level, tyres will be granted for 10 laps only.
    OK, what can be done to reduce the stress level? decrease speed lowering the aerodynamic load seems a suitable solution...
    As all teams have sophisticated aerodynamic models. Should Michelin have given the maw load figure, teams could have adapted the aerodynamics, leaving a safety margin, allowing the race to begin.
    IMHO they decided to bluff, proposing a legally unacceptable solution (new tyres or chicane) counting on the fact that the "no race" alternative was even less acceptable.
    FIA called the bluff.
    Again, IMHO Michelin is not only guilty, but has played dirty as well. Dirtier than Ferrari, as they already did two years ago…
    Ciao
    Eugenio
     

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