News

Cost to Race CCR?

Discussion in 'Challenge Club Racing Championship' started by dmark1, Jul 14, 2014.

  1. dmark1

    dmark1 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 26, 2008
    11,024
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Just wondering if anyone can give a ballpark number for racing this entire series in terms of car prep costs, trackside costs, consumables and transportation. I am based in Dallas and have raced SCCA Formula Mazda several years and would like to race a 360 in this series. any financial information would be appreciated.
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
    2,052
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    John William H.
    #2 johnhoughtaling, Jul 15, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2014
    The 360 is definitely the biggest bang for the buck. CCR has very little if any car to car contact, so unless you damage it yourself you don't have too much to worry about on the car. If the 360 is a good one they are reliable. They haven't depreciate in a decade, so that's the biggest savings bc the car is essentially free. Budget 10-12k per event. Absent major failure you should be able to do an entire arrive and drive series for 70k. Support with a top team should be 6.5k a weekend, that's prep between races and transportation and full support. (That's high side-some teams are less) one time membership 1.5k (includes 3k of gear). Entry fee is 1.5k per event. One set of tires 1.8k. 1k consumables. 5 races, 50k plus 20k misc. You can spend less or more. Cars are even, but tires wear as you go faster. I highly suggest a pro drivers coach (CCR has several) which ads 1.5k per weekend. This is the best performance advantage you can get. 360 also sounds like an F1 car and in CCR spec with the wing and splitter it's about the best handling GT car on the planet.
     
  4. dmark1

    dmark1 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 26, 2008
    11,024
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Wow, great information! Thanks John ! If all goes well this year you might have a new back marker to drive around next year LOL!

    PM me sometime and maybe we can have a drink at my hotel in New Orleans, The Saint, and discuss further.

    Mark
     
  5. jakermc

    jakermc Formula 3
    Owner

    Jan 17, 2004
    1,778
    Palm Beach, FL
    Full Name:
    Rob
    Give a call over to Norwood Auto Italia (based in Carrollton) for specifics on their support costs. They are supporting 3 of us this year in the series and do a fantastic job. We have also teamed up with Jason Hart (also based in DFW) for coaching.
     
  6. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Social Subscribed Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    52,358
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    355 is. 360 MUCH faster though!
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Social Subscribed Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    52,358
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    John's numbers are right. It was about $10-12k a race for me in 2011.

    car transport $1-3k
    tires $2-4k
    travel, your Mustang :)
    entry fees
    team support

    you can race NASA local with 360 Challenge for about 25% of the cost, but CCR is much more fun with the tracks, all Ferraris, and social events.

    don't worry Mark, there are enough back markers you will at least be middle of pack! ;)
     
  9. jakermc

    jakermc Formula 3
    Owner

    Jan 17, 2004
    1,778
    Palm Beach, FL
    Full Name:
    Rob
    Maintenance costs on the 355 have proven to be very challenging when raced on a frequent basis and cared for so that all systems are always operating at 100% capacity. They are surprisingly cheap to keep in long term storage however. ;)

    I agree with John, the 360 is very appealing from a cost standpoint.
     
  10. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Social Subscribed Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    52,358
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    360 is good, but I still think 355 is better for costs. you and Colin have tinkered too much because you have too much money, time, and desire for tenths of a second! :D

    I probably do have more problems now because I don't drive it as much, but 8 years of heavy use proved my completely stock car untinkered to be reliable. the Challenge car was much more reliable than the Mazda's because you don't crack rotors, slip clutches, and break transmissions. The weak point of 355 is the alternator, have the NASCAR ones helped? also the hub bearings, mostly just running bumpy tracks like Eagles Canyon.
     
  11. jakermc

    jakermc Formula 3
    Owner

    Jan 17, 2004
    1,778
    Palm Beach, FL
    Full Name:
    Rob
    The only tinkering I have done is aero (wing and splitter) and replacing the broken stock shocks with Motons. Neither has done anything to impact running costs. Other than that I have each spent time and money getting the set-up right, but that should be true of any car. And the lap times show it has been more than just a few tenths. I think I have a full second on your personal best at MSR, and I'd be the first to admit you are a better driver.

    Alternators and starters are failing at a rapid pace, the NASCAR replacements are still prone to issues.

    We may have different definitions of 'heavy use'. In 2011 how many events did you run, 3 or 4? And no practice between events? The CCR is now up to 6 events, we will run them all, and have full tilt practice sessions in between. I was just at MSR on Saturday to put 2 hours on the car in 95 degree heat to test reliability. Next month before Watkins Glen we will put in 2 extra days of practice there. These cars are great for the casual racer, but taking a more serious approach to a full season begins to expose some warts.
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Social Subscribed Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    52,358
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    I swear I've done everything I can to break it! :D

    I remember one of your Porsche buddies arguing with me I was hitting over 10,000 RPM at Hallett.
     
  14. dipstick1

    dipstick1 Formula Junior

    May 24, 2004
    312
    Connecticut
    Full Name:
    Peter Lombardo
    I have had excellent reliability with my 355CH , I have run the same battery and Alt. since 2010 I have raced FCRA/CCR since 2011 and have had only a blown upper coolant hose for a DNF back in 11. Car has been tracked since 2005 with only normal wear items to contend with.
     
  15. JFatigati

    JFatigati Karting

    Apr 10, 2011
    57
    New York
    Full Name:
    John Fatigati
    I agree with Pete. I think the 355 is the way to go, too! Simple and reliable as long as it's kept on top of and not . No pumps and electronics to deal with. Good old fashioned fun!
     
  16. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Social Subscribed Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    52,358
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    I really think it is the heat we get down here in Texas.
     
  17. kverges

    kverges F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
    3,160
    Dallas
    Full Name:
    Keith Verges
    Above is why I race SRF. I am a cheap bastard who derives a perverse satisfaction from racing a car I really don't like that much. That said, I bet the new Gen3 powered SRF will outrun a 355 and maybe 360 at my home track MSR. Anyone want to see?
     
  18. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2007
    72,931
    I think the new gen 3 SRF will be a great car, and will give that series a big boost.
     
  19. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Social Subscribed Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    52,358
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    then why did you ever do national SM racing, FM, VRL, and especially turbo Lotus!?! :D you act like you were always cheap when actually it took you a long time to get there. ;)
     
  20. Teachdocs

    Teachdocs Formula Junior

    Sep 3, 2012
    567
    Kansas City area
    Full Name:
    Chad
    Cost to Race CCR?

    Taking a green flag with 30 other Ferrari purpose built race cars.....
    Priceless.

    Hope to find out soon!
     
  21. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Social Subscribed Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    52,358
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    Love to see Team KC out there. :)
     
  22. Teachdocs

    Teachdocs Formula Junior

    Sep 3, 2012
    567
    Kansas City area
    Full Name:
    Chad
  23. kverges

    kverges F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
    3,160
    Dallas
    Full Name:
    Keith Verges
    Ouch. My rough rule of thumb is to multiply the price of the car by 2 and budget that for a season. But I tend to crash in spec cars, too.
     
  24. Teachdocs

    Teachdocs Formula Junior

    Sep 3, 2012
    567
    Kansas City area
    Full Name:
    Chad

    Wow.
    That would be a budget of $300K for a season to run a F430C.
    Better be a lot of parties and girls for that kind of moolah.
     
  25. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Social Subscribed Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    52,358
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    hard to apply that rule for Ferrari race cars because the actual car is so much higher than most, as long as you don't total it! tires, travel, entry fees, and most team support will be the same whether $10k GT car or $120k.

    I think it is reasonable to expect 6 weekends of CCR in 430 Challenge to be about $90k at the end.

    CCR averaged about $8-12k for me a weekend in 2011 running 355.

    I could run NASA weekends through Texas in 355 for about $1k.

    -$400 entry
    -$200 gas
    -was my own support
    -set of tires $1,600 - but with the old Hoosier contingency I never won less than 2 tires a weekend and often got full set.
     
  26. dmark1

    dmark1 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 26, 2008
    11,024
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Mark
    #23 dmark1, Jul 16, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2014
    I will, thanks! Coincidentally they are just across the runway from my office at Addison so they sound like a logical choice.
     

Share This Page