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Converting a Challenge into a road car, possible?

Discussion in 'Challenge/GT Cars' started by Robbe, Mar 6, 2018.

  1. Robbe

    Robbe Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2013
    426
    The Netherlands
    Hi all,
    is it possible to convert/modify a Challenge into a roadworthy car?
    I understand that everything can be done at a price, but is a conversion even possible?
    Or is the list of things to do almost endless and priceless and extreme difficult?
    What would be the hardest part to do? Airbags? or ABS (or does it have ABS?) Or maybe the suspension (now too low for the street, can it even be raised enough like 3 cm?)

    Reason I am asking is that I am interested in a certain Modena Challenge to accompany my 355 spider, but to use it it will need to be EU road legal...
    thanks for any answers!
     
  2. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Aug 25, 2005
    5,941
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    John Zornes
    It doesn't even have a VIN or title so I am not sure how you would EVER get there.
     
  3. Dewinator

    Dewinator Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 22, 2017
    2,022
    Could you register it as a kit car or prototype or something like that?
     
  4. Robbe

    Robbe Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2013
    426
    The Netherlands
    In the UK that might work, but perhaps not in The Netherlands where I live.
    (but known route is to register in the UK first, then import it into NL)
    But no VIN also means no full papers, and that could be a problem as well.
    Or do they come with a proof of ownership normally (no experience with modern racers) apart from a bill of sale?
     
  5. 97 Spider

    97 Spider Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 15, 2012
    2,191
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Brian
    But challenge cars DO have VIN numbers. Just no paperwork for registration. In a state like Montana I could have it titled and on the road in no time.
     
  6. I'm 360 Canuck

    I'm 360 Canuck Formula 3

    Nov 21, 2015
    1,887
    Ontario, The Real One in Canada
    Full Name:
    Lars!
    I can’t see how it would be worth the effort with modenas at these prices.
     
  7. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 4, 2010
    3,115
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Jes
    360 Challenge cars have European VIN numbers, i.e. 8th letter is "B" - in the US no title. They have ASR and ABS, no airbags, no visible odometer. Whether you can make it road legal depends on your countries regulations. In the US it cannot be done legally IMO, unless you enlist a Registered Importer, but I don't think that is cost effective. My take...
     
  8. ml321

    ml321 Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2008
    254
    London/Munich
    I saw a 430 Challenge road registered in Germany for sale a few years ago, so it seems to be possible. I had a brief chat with my Ferrari dealer about it and they said they had never done it and would expect cost of 40-50k - take that with a grain of salt as I have a feeling they are not keen on modifying anything on a Ferrari / seem to believe cars have to stay as produced by the factory. I did not pursue it further, so no more Input - probably makes sense to talk to a Ferrari specialist about it (and yes UK would probably be a lot easier than countries in the continent)
     
  9. Robbe

    Robbe Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2013
    426
    The Netherlands
    The idea is/was to spend like 10k on conversion (handbrake, airbag system from a Modena etc) and then have a Ferrari-built race car on the road. Much more fun to have/own than a normal Modena, even if the Modena would drive better on the road. It's the heritage/racebred thing...

    I will contact our authorities regarding the title. If it does have a VIN, and some kind of official paper that confirms that VIN, it will be hard to register but not impossible.
    Other problem might be: In europe (EU at least) we normally need a Certificate of Conformity, where the manufacturer claims to have built the car conform to the car that got a type registration first. There also might be a problem as the C does not meet the certificate of the Modena...

    Anybody know of a car (pics, video, story) that has been converted? Just to hear the story how hard/easy it was...
    Thanks so far for your thoughts and input...
     
  10. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    10,733
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
  11. matfo

    matfo Rookie

    Aug 1, 2013
    34
    Sweden
    There is one for sale in Sweden: https://www.blocket.se/helsingborg/Ferrari_360_Challenge_77473290.htm?sa=1

    Link to translated page: https://translate.google.se/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=https://www.blocket.se/helsingborg/Ferrari_360_Challenge_77473290.htm?sa=1&edit-text=&act=url

    The asking price is 1 190 000 SEK equals approx 145 000 USD or 117 000 EUR

    Note: I don't know anything about the car other than what is written in the ad since I have no connection to it. However, by using the registration number stated in the ad, I managed to get the VIN: ZFFYR51B000127257 from the Swedish Vehicle register. It's sold thru a dealer but seems to be registered on a private person yet so it can be a sales assignment I guess.
     
  12. Robbe

    Robbe Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2013
    426
    The Netherlands
    Great example, thanks. I see a handbrake in the middle , for sure there have been adjustments made.
    So it has been done before, good to know.
    The paper/registration thing now seems to be the major pitfall
     
  13. jochem00

    jochem00 Formula Junior

    Jun 19, 2014
    336
    Netherlands
    yes it can be done and is fairly easy.
    raise the car by 3 cm, no problem.
    make sure the lights are working as they should.
    road tyres.
    speedometer no problem.
    install the streetlegal exhaust (standard one is cheap)

    go to the RDW and have your car inspected for road worthiness, first inspection.
     
  14. chrixxx

    chrixxx Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 22, 2004
    797
    Lucerne
    Full Name:
    Chris
    plus seats and belts, handbrake, wheels, rollcage, steering wheel (airbag?) etc.... a few areas to cover. I recommend also to change the clutch as the race clutch doesnt like queuing... :)
     
  15. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jun 14, 2011
    8,075
    SoCal LA/OC
    Full Name:
    Tim Dee

    Not sure your laws, can you get a dealers license and just run dealer plates? I used to do that all the time here in the USA
    Was very cost effective

    :)
     
  16. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 4, 2010
    3,115
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Jes
    I think it will get old driving a 360 challenge car on the street REALLY quickly. If you plan to conform to safety and emission laws you will have to replace/add the fuel system, fuel filler (otherwise you can't fill at the gas station), then you need roll-over valves = tanks as well, evap system, ... though pumps are the same... basically turning it into a Modena little by little. I think you would be better off taking 360 Modena and turn it into a 360 Challenge tribute car.
     
  17. matfo

    matfo Rookie

    Aug 1, 2013
    34
    Sweden
    I don't know the reason behind the question from OP to start with, but for me it makes a lot of sense to have this type of car road legal if possible. The reason wouldn't be to drive it in the queues to work but it would increase the possibility to drive it on track dramatically. Here in Sweden (and I think in other parts of Europe too) we have a lot of track days where only road legal cars are allowed. For insurance reasons we cannot mix non registered race cars with road legal cars on the track. The track days opened for race cars are often targeted towards the race teams that are competing and if you don't want to race with the car it's not the right place to be. In fact, if you not going to race, you are not welcome on most of those sessions.

    As you can see from the ad I linked to, you don't have to remove the roll cage or seats and harnesses etc to make it road legal in Sweden so it's pretty much an untouched 360 Challenge apart from the handbrake installation and some other minor details. No change to the engine or drive train etc.

    So, for me, having a road legal 360 Challenge would be perfect, unfortunately I cannot afford it. :eek:
     
  18. Robbe

    Robbe Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2013
    426
    The Netherlands
    Ok, so that is more work than anticipated. I thought that things like fuel system and safety of it were already top notch. But I understand that Modena parts will have to be added to it. Hmm, another chapter on the list...
     
  19. leopard881

    leopard881 Karting

    May 11, 2014
    222
    Full Name:
    David
    the regulations vary from country to country - there is NO clear or general statement possible on what is needed. best check directly with the authorities prior to starting any project!
    here is my 360CH on the Furka-Pass road - it is huge fun to drive it on mountain roads!
    cheers
    david
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  20. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 22, 2004
    6,122
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Tom Wiggers
    Done in NL before with a 360C
    Not all RDW centres are helpfull; I know only one in NL.
     
  21. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 4, 2010
    3,115
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Jes
    Beautiful picture!!! It looks like you have the fuel filler of the Challenge car - I guess you refuel from fuel jugs at home then? That is one way to avoid having to deal with the fuel system, though there is no evap system then.
     
  22. Robbe

    Robbe Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2013
    426
    The Netherlands
    Some more info, the VIN is ZFFYR51B000123031. According to the nrs book, this is a Spider nr (123031 at least).
    But all nrs after that (32,33,34,35,36) are Challenge cars.
    What do you think, is the book wrong?
    The car has all signs of a Challenge, with twin fuel fillers, digi dash, fire extinguisher control etc.
    It is not very likely a spider was converted into a fake challenge, or is it?

    The car comes without history or any papers other than a bill of sale.
    I know, the lack of history or maintenance for that matter kills a lot of value.
    Would you still say this car is worth like 60k usd?
     
  23. leopard881

    leopard881 Karting

    May 11, 2014
    222
    Full Name:
    David
    @ ar4me: thx! - one fuel filler is kept original, the other one replaced by a standard-one, so that I can refill everywhere :)
    @ Robbe: 123031 - check with a Ferrari dealer what is said on the car in their electronic system. Other databases may be wrong (we just had the debate here in FChat on the blue dutch 360CH that IS a conversion (with all details...!)). It also might be that the car is not a full conversion, but that e.g. the VIN has been taken from a donor etc. - note that 123031 has been for sale for quite some time.
     
  24. Robbe

    Robbe Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2013
    426
    The Netherlands
    Hi David, do you have any more info on the 123031? I can't find history of it being for sale in the past...
     
  25. leopard881

    leopard881 Karting

    May 11, 2014
    222
    Full Name:
    David
    pm sent
     

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