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Considering a F430 - Worth going to an 08-09?

Discussion in '360/430' started by Jesse Perry, Dec 14, 2019.

  1. Jesse Perry

    Jesse Perry Rookie

    Dec 14, 2019
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    Jesse Perry
    Hey!
    I am considering buying my first F430 and am stuck between an earlier 06 model and a 08-09 model. I have read extensively about the frequent clutch replacement and it seems to be a common occurrence. I have also read that the 08-09 years was a bit better on the clutch wear.

    What kind of mileage have you gotten on your clutches?
    What things have taken you by surprise?
    What have you loved about the car?
    Looking for more personal experiences good or bad. Would you buy a F430 again after owning one?

    I am also considering a 12c or a 911 Turbo as well. I just do not care too much for the 911 in the looks department and the 12C is pitching itself to be a maintenance nightmare with a national shortage of parts.
     
  2. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    3,472
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    360trev
    Don't believe all the hype about the 12C from YouTubers, they are amazing cars to own and drive. Not all cars are basket cases and prices quoted on the Web are often massively incorrect. Driving mine regularly and its just like clockwork... However it sounds like crap even with a Akrapovic titanium system fitted compared to earlier Ferrari's like the F430.

    The F430 sonics are vastly superior, so if sonics are important don't forget to check that out in person. Yet to do a sports cat on the 12C but there is no doubting the sledge hammer performance on tap.


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  3. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 4, 2004
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    Is there a year with the 430 that ceramics brakes became standard ?
    Ceramics kind of a big deal IMO.
     
  4. Jesse Perry

    Jesse Perry Rookie

    Dec 14, 2019
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    Jesse Perry
    I believe in 2008.
     
  5. AandSC

    AandSC Rookie
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    Dec 12, 2016
    35
    Jax, FL
    Ceramics became standard in ‘08.

    Regarding clutch wear, mine is at 27% at 22K miles, which seems about average from what I’ve been able to see.
     
  6. saudio

    saudio Karting

    Jul 22, 2014
    75
    Western Virginia
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Likewise on the 12C post above. I have a 12C and an F430. Both are fantastic cars in completely different ways. I'm selling my 2013 12C spider with 14 months of McLaren warranty included if the only thing stopping you is worry about reliability. PM me if you have any interest.
     
  7. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    I don't think 08 09 makes a difference. Some 08 cars have the same shifting speed as earlier cars.
    what matters to me the most is the gear change architect change somewhere in 2008.
    How to tell, engine bay, RH of gearbox, if you see a sensor wrapped with heat shield around the clutch hydraulic lines, then you got the faster shift speed version of f430. otherwise, its the same as 2005, 06, 07.
     
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  8. gsworld2014

    gsworld2014 Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2014
    996
    South Florida
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    Greg S
    Clutch will last 20-30k
     
  9. Normal1959

    Normal1959 Rookie
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    Nov 20, 2019
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    bayhill orlando
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    Normal59
    I only paid $119,000 for a mint (7500) mile 2009 F430.
    Seems like the same price I see asking for an 07 F430 and you get the CCB standard.
    I say it's worth any extra for the 430.
    Eric
    Forgot to mention, that was a month ago on Ebay.
     
  10. cole328

    cole328 Formula Junior

    May 9, 2014
    345
    Seems not surprisingly, most of us on here or on the same page. Also, most of us on here I’ve had other great cars. I personally have had several variants of the 911, but never a turbo. That said, my 07 f430 spider is my first Ferrari, and without a doubt, the most fun interesting at all around most enjoyable car I have ever owned. Would not look back !


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  11. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
    1,563
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    Mark
    Go for an MY08 if you can - assuming that you're looking at an F1.
     
  12. timjen88

    timjen88 Karting

    Aug 20, 2015
    141
    Colorado, USA
    I had an '07 with 20k miles, at 25% clutch, no other issues other than the usual "ferrari" niggles.
     
  13. FSM348

    FSM348 Formula Junior
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    Feb 13, 2017
    321
    Take my observation for what it's worth...

    Bought an 05 430 with CCB brakes and 18k miles on the clock for close to $40k less than what 08-09 430s (similar condition and miles) are going for and mine is as perfect as a used 430 can get. I'm not sure how I could possible justify the extra $40k for a slightly faster shift. I believe that most early 430s shift PLENTY fast enough as long as a few parameters are met.

    1) Check your motor mounts. With only 18k miles on the clock mine were completely shot and had lost over 1/2" in height and the rubber had completely separated from the metal pads. I changed mine myself in 1 hour for $220 in parts and it was insanely easy.

    2) After warming the car up by a good hard drive park the car and run the actuator relearn procedure. Do this by spending $330 on the Launch XPRO 3 software and dongle and have 99% of the power of the Ferrari SD3 system. Also, now you can bleed your clutch, brakes corner by corner, bleed the F1 system, read clutch wear, etc!!!

    3)Make sure your PIS is adjusted properly. I'm still learning the Motronic architecture but so far I found that lowering my PIS from 4.5mm to 4.4mm made a huge difference in taking off from a standing start as well as the quickness of the shifts. I also found that over the last 1k miles of driving there is almost no difference in calculated clutch wear which was accomplished by a properly set PIS and by not using reverse for any longer than absolutely necessary and when taking off from 1st use a nice easy but progressive application to the throttle. You should feel full clutch engagement 1500-1700 RPM from my experience in the car and it should be quick but also very smooth. I also usually shift straight to neutral when coasting to a stop rather than going down the gears.

    NOTE* when adjusting your PIS take notice of the gearbox RPM. If your gearbox RPM is more than "0" when you at a stand still then you need to back your PIS back because at this point your dragging your clutch which is no bueno.

    The difference in shifting in my car went from pretty darn good before changing engine mounts and adjustments in the gearbox software to a shockingly quick and precise gear changes on hard accelerations in various conditions I've tested it. That being said, I have ZERO doubts the FAST 3 system is perceivably faster in most circumstances than the FAST 2 system but what is that slight difference worth to you? If it is an absolute necessity because you know you could be shifting milliseconds faster had you just spent the extra $20-40k depending on condition of an 08-09 430 then go for the later 430's. Not a problem with that mentality at all.

    I've not driven a 430 with the FAST 3 F1 system but I did race open wheel formula cars for several years with insanely quick sequential gearboxes that shifted at least as quickly as any modern dual clutch Ferrari and I will say my 05 430 does not disappoint in the fun experience scale.
     
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  14. Mighty Joe

    Mighty Joe Formula Junior

    Sep 3, 2010
    904
    Atlanta, GA
    Full Name:
    Joe
    I saw an '06 F430 spider that was getting its first clutch at 76K miles! That's right.....you read that right....it was a Dr's car (DD) and was being serviced at Ferrari of Atlanta a couple years ago!! F430's are great cars!
     
  15. cfensty

    cfensty Formula Junior
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    Jan 1, 2008
    673
    Hilton Head Is., SC
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    Craig
    There are a slew of changes between early model F430s and model year 2008/9. Someone recently posted a list a page long and I did save it somewhere so PM me if you are interested and I will look for it. Most of the items aren’t things that you would notice and most people aren’t aware of but likely make later cars more reliable by working out the kinks (like any automobile model run). I sought out MY2008 specifically for the better F1 transmission setup and the glorious CCBs (not to mention the stronger MKII headers). The price difference seems to be closer to about $20k recently.

    No matter what year you look for, service history is paramount and pay close attention to headers/exhaust brackets, motor mounts, upper transmission mount, annual oil service, biannual transmission oil service, consistent F1 system fluid service and consistent brake fluid and coolant service. A well serviced vehicle will save you a ton in the long run with an aging exotic like the F430. Find the right F430 and you will not be disappointed!


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  16. FSM348

    FSM348 Formula Junior
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    Feb 13, 2017
    321
    Agreed 100% although as you said, maintenance is probably more important to reliability than small changes during the model run.

    Factory headers should be replaced from everything I've heard (even the MK2 headers which also have had similar issues with the MK1 headers) with any of the quality aftermarket units. I recommend AP headers and be sure to install proper header blankets.

    CCBs are available on all the model years (my 05 has them) and I concur that anybody looking for a 430 should seriously consider them if you have any intention of driving the car on track. Also, I notice my suspension arms, calipers, wheels, shock bodies, etc all look nearly new because there are no iron particles oxidizing everything under the wheel arches like the normal metal rotors do.

    I recommend S-Line exhaust which have a much better bracket setup than factory and sound amazing although they are LOUD for sure.

    It is really important, as mentioned by cfensty, that all fluids be changed on a routine basis. Oil should be done every year regardless of miles. Brakes, F1 system, clutch and coolant ideally should be flushed annually but biannually should suffice. Gearbox should be done every 2-3 years max.

    Also, ball joints are a common annoying issue every few years. Recommend uprated ball joints to help prevent the premature oxidation of the chrome coated Ferrari original pieces.


    My big point is all of these will be things to look for on any model year and as far as I'm aware the only real and true difference is the FAST 3 F1 software in the 08-09MY. If the very slight uprated shift speed is worth the $20k plus difference to you then go for it! You will also have a few less years of age that might be of some benefit but at this point I'd venture to guess all 430s are starting to have similar small things here and there being as they are 10-15 years old by now. They really are amazing cars though!
     
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  17. Fenz

    Fenz Karting
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    Nov 8, 2018
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    JH
    Mark's Excel-file with of some of the changes that were made between 2005-2009.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. FSM348

    FSM348 Formula Junior
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    Feb 13, 2017
    321
    Were the new heads, valve seats, injection assembly, intake manifold and covers and gaskets on the standard 430 or only the challenge / scuderia variant? It appears from the list that these were only put into the scuderia models and borrowed from the challenge cars? If so then the rest of the changes still should not persuade anybody from looking at 05 models when you can get a much better value. That is unless there is evidence that the 2005 models suffered from issues in a meaningful way because of such updates throughout the years?

    All of this is a moot point if the extra $20k+ is of no consequence to you. If that is the case then you might as well go for the 08-09 if nothing else because it's newer and has a little bit faster shifting speeds. Any other advantage would just be a cherry on top. If the extra $$$ is enough to give you a pause then maybe buy an early model and put the remaining cash in an account reserved for usual maintenance.

    In a perfect world a potential buyer should test drive both an early 430 and a late 430 (both at peak maintenance levels) and see if the difference justifies the different perceived values in the current market. Each person might feel differently on this and that is perfectly fine either way.

    Another thing to think about is the probability that early 430s are just about at basement bargain prices right now and the later years most likely have some depreciation left in the tank. Add the fact that early and late model years have most likely a negligible difference in cost of ownership and it may not make financial sense to pay for the later years. 08/09MY may always carry a little extra attention by potential buyers due to either perception or build quality or both but the gap between them in market values can only get closer from here on out right? That has certainly been the trend from my observations anyway when negate the slight difference in value a newer car will have regardless of factory upgrades or not.
     
  19. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
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    Mark
    That list is for the F430.
     
  20. FSM348

    FSM348 Formula Junior
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    Feb 13, 2017
    321
    If that’s the case I’d be interested in knowing the differences of the engine changes. I also noticed a crank case later on. A detailed description would of those changes and reasons for them being implemented would be very interesting. Good info here!
     
  21. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 19, 2008
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    Terry H Phillips
    It sure would. Do you want to do the research to fill in the blanks since Mark did the leg work for you? Here is something similar for the 575M. Format might work for you.
     

    Attached Files:

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  22. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
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    The later engines were Challenge spec - Challenge cams, different head castings with a different cam bearing diameter, valves - all sorts. The later engines even sound different to early engines and make power in a different way.

    Would the average owner notice? I doubt it. I tend to notice everything - but I'm very interested in the engineering side of things.
     
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  23. kingp0820

    kingp0820 Rookie

    Dec 6, 2017
    7
    Castro Valley, CA
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    Ramon Periquet Jr
    Great info! Thanks. Where are you located?
     
  24. kingp0820

    kingp0820 Rookie

    Dec 6, 2017
    7
    Castro Valley, CA
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    Ramon Periquet Jr
    Purchased my 2007 F430 a few months ago from a guy who advertised it here. Couldn’t be happier... Have had several 911s and M cars (still have 2) and none of them came close to the driving experience I get with the F430. I did look at the 12C too (doors are cool) but didn’t like the front end as much. I did feel they were much more comfortable than the 430 but I wasn’t looking for a daily driver so the 430 was more fun. Brakes on mine have been upgraded to bigger brembo discs with the yellow calipers. Great stopping power. After looking for so long in various places (CL, eBay, dealers) I feel this forum to be the best place to find one. Meet the owner, get all the history. Clutch on mine is 20% used and my car has 23k miles. Previous owner stated that owner before him used the “auto” shifting most of the time which I believe wears out the clutch quicker so it was changed prematurely. Enjoy the search...
     
  25. Kruegmeister

    Kruegmeister Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 24, 2016
    401
    Michigan
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    Kruegmeister
    I bought my 07 F430 in Feb 2017.
    Had 11K miles & my Clutch was at 1% (Thanks Earl Gibbs for being a liar) but 11K sounds atypical from previous posts. I needed TPMS sensors, an exhaust bracket & Clutch. Along with a "Major" service I paid $12K
    This year I paid $4K for Service, Headlight Washer Plug that flew off on a FCA trip & Wheel Bearings. Next Year I anticipate getting Carbon Ceramic Brakes as my Brakes should most likely be due next year (anticipating a 8K bill for that???)

    Maintenance should slow after that as everything should be sorted by the time I have my Brakes done.
    Car is a blast. I personally prefer the 430 for looks, sound & driving experience. Could never do the Porsche 911 as I don't like the VW Bug Lights so much that I simply cannot get past it. McLaren I don't like the Styling on any of them. More of a Corvette guy outside of my 355 & 430
    My 2014 C7 Corvette on paper was faster than my 355 & 430, but the Ferraris are both still more thrilling to drive. Sold the C7 early this Spring & have a Z51 C8 on order, the Vette is something I can take to a Customers Facility without getting the Stink Eye, makes no sense as it'll cost more than what I paid for the 355...
     

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