Colorado Ski Condos

Remember it'll end up as just a convenient closet for your skis so you better want to (only) go there every time you get the urge.

This is a good site either way.....

vrbo.com

 

While I can't speak on the residential prices at Copper, generally, the Colorado market for properties in ski towns has been very strong. Currently, in Vail, it's not uncommon to see $3K/sf in the Village and even more for the truly ski-in/out properties. Aspen is also strong. So, if you're asking if the market is dipping, it hasn't so far. However, you can always wait and see before committing, and prices may soften given the supply (and how long it's) on the market. OTOH, they may rise due to the weakening of the dollar and the International clientele at these two destinations. That said, neither Vail nor Aspen may be a perfect comparable for Copper. I'd first think more of a Keystone or possibly a Breckenridge as a direct comparable, although Breckenridge is becoming more of an International destination, which changes the dynamics somewhat.

Aspen and Vail are both top resorts, and they each have their own charms and drawbacks. I would say that they are the Colorado powerhouses over the Summit County peaks. There are also places like Steamboat or Telluride to consider and are possibly more "pure" in the skiing experience. For me, it's about convenience. Vail has an excellent airport. Alternatively, Vail is within 2 hours driving distance of DIA. Given that the weather can sometimes play a factor, this can be an important fact. It was also about year-round activities/amenities and world-class entertainment and restaurants. If you start ticking off the boxes, only Vail and Aspen truly have these.

I'm not trying to convince you to seriously look outside of Copper, just sharing my criteria. Aspen has a lot of charm as an old mining town, but it is kind of remote, unless you have a plane (and many pilots don't like the approach). Vail is totally under construction and some view it as not an "authentic" ski town, but it has everything.

Good luck.

CW

 

I go to Deer Valley, Utah almost every year. It is about amile form the Park City ski resort, but I prefer the Deer Valley resort as there are no snowboarders allowed. I used to ski Steamboat Springs, but I like the Utah resorts better. They are a little less crowded, and offer a better value. The two resorts listed above are about 30-40 minutes from the Salt Lake airport. I would just rent a place from a site like VRBO instead of owning.
BT

 

Hi Rob,

Sent you a PM. My wife and I own a place in Summit County, CO which we use year round. Appreciation has been brisk for the past couple years. Slowing a bit, but still probably better than most areas. We chose Frisco, CO for a couple of reasons:
1) 1.5 hrs from Denver International Airport
2) Close to 6 Major destination resorts (Vail 25 mins, Beaver Creek 30 mins, Breckenridge 15 mins, Keystone 10 mins, Copper Mtn 5 mins, Arapahoe Basin 20 mins). Frisco is Copper Mountains "town", per se, outside of the ski area condo's itself.
3) Frisco provided an actual town, versus just a ski resort locale. Restaurants, shopping, etc .
4) Frisco is right on the bike path (Breck to Frisco to Copper to Vail) and in the other direction Dillon/Silverthorne to Keystone. Close to many trails, and convenient to the Lake Dillon Reservoir for fishing/boating, and many golf courses, etc.....

So any season, lots to do.

I think your choice is whether or not you want to pay a bit more for a ski-condo on mountain (like Breck) and get a few more seasonal rentals possible, or have a condo in a location that is not just a ski hill -- rentals will be solid, but not offer ski-in/ski-out. Appeal to those who like to visit the mountains all year, and dont require staying on the hill.

Regards, John

 

Rob, you may also want to look at Beaver Creek, CO. Three exits west of Vail on I-70. Two hours from DIA-Denver and just 25 minutes from
Eage-Vail (EGE) airport. Beaver Creek is a gated community and much more exclusive than Vail, Keystone, Breck or Copper. Ski ticket prices are climbing, now $82/day and I believe on of the highest.

As for buying, depends on what your objectives are. If you like to have friends or family over then you'd need a larger place. If not, a 1-bedroom or a studio in the Beaver Creek Village might work for you at around $450K. Because a majority of village condos are ski-in/out, prospects for rental income are good and would probably cover 60% to 70% of your cost.

And BTW, Ferrari driving is oh-so-fabulous in God's country. Just had mine shipped from Miami/Ft Lauderdale. The 355 lived in Houston, TX for a couple of years pior to that and just loved getting exercised behind Grady Owens' convoy of cavallinos on country roads. But South Florida ....nah ... you better be into tracking to enjoy the thrill; there's no such thing as country roads here.

PM me if you want more info about Beaver Creek.

 

If he is having a bit of CO sticker shock about the prices I sent in Frisco, BC will knock him over.

Its a GREAT mountain, and really pretty ski village...but I think Beaver Creek is on the upper end of all of the Vail resorts in both quality, atmosphere and price. Vail is about the same, too. Dont ya think?

 

I can't believe he said BC is more exclusive than Vail!

CW

 

Well, I don't want to get PhilNotHill up in arms. However, they do have their differences and there is probably no clear cut winner when it comes to exclusivity. There are just as many billionaires holed up in Vail as there are in Aspen. I think, between the two, it boils down to a few things.

First, accessibility. Aspen is more remote than Vail. Vail's airport accomodates big planes, so one can fly directly from major hubs into Eagle. Not so for Aspen. And, if the weather turns bad and the planes can't get in to Vail (or Aspen), Aspen is a LONG way from Denver. And, if the weather is bad, it gets even longer. Edge to Vail?

Second, style. While Aspen has the charm of a former frontier mining town, Vail Village is modeled in the European style. PhilNotHill points to Aspen's authentic history. Vail is <50 years old and is already tearing down and re-building. Personal preference, and Vail will be spectacular after the $1B renovation is complete. Edge to Aspen for the moment?

Third, year-round lifestyle/entertainment/restaurants venues. Both resorts have plentiful activities, venues and restaurants. It's a draw?

Fourth, quality of the skiing experience. Both mountains and operators provide excellent experiences. Vail may be more "commercialized" and focused on profits. Vail has access to Wall St. dollars, so it can spend lavishly on the town and amenities. Aspen must also certainly focus on profits, but as a private operation, they have the luxury of doing it their way. But, they don't have the deep pockets that VA has. Probably, again, a draw?

Fifth, the clientele. Aspen tends to draw the celebrities out more than Vail. However, Vail has Wall Streeters and a more international base. Lots of wealthy South and Central Americans and Europeans come to Vail. It adds a flavor and sophistication that Aspen doesn't have, though. Edge to Vail?

Anyway, we can argue these until the cows come home. Probably worth going to Vail and Aspen before deciding.

CW

 

Two completely different places. Depends on what you want.

Aspen is more remote. Unlike Vail we have fewer skiers on the weekends as it is a travel day. No lift lines where I ski. And I only ski on sunny days.

Aspen is a town. You can walk everywhere. You don't need a car. (Heresy for a car lover). We live in Aspen mainly because of the classical music festival (circa June 20 to Aug 20 annually). We do have a racetrack for cars in Woody Creek (10 minutes away).

We back up to a creek and cannot see another house yet we are three blocks from downtown. The value of our property has almost doubled in 5 years. We live with our windows open so we can hear the creek year round.

Vail. It seems like you can hear the trucks on I-70 24x7. Vail is so close to Denver that they get much more weekend visitors. Aspen is a destination resort so things are never jammed.

The scenery is beautiful with lots of hiking, biking and kyaking. Maroon Bells is 5 minutes away. Independence Pass is just to the east. Picnic sites, hikes and great drives. the Frying Pan River has some of the best Gold Medal fly fishing in America. There are 10 world class restaurants within 6 blocks of where we live.

The Aspen Institute brings in speakers and programs that are world class. Many are free. the Aspen Center for Physics has free lectures every Tuesday summer and winter. Fun to talk to some of the brightest people on the planet.

the place is so small that it is very easy to get to know people and they know you. Yet you have all the cultural advantages of a big city without the hassle. there is so much to do that there is never enough time to do it all. Thank goodness spring and fall are kind of slow because summer and winter are really jam packed with activities.


I can live anywhere. My dream has always been to live in Aspen. Mission accomplished.

 

PhilNotHill,

I think we've given a pretty good accounting of Vail and Aspen. The only bit I'd further comment on is the I-70 traffic noise. While I-70 is certainly nearby, I never notice it. That may be as a function of where I am in the Village, my own poor hearing or even just getting used to the noise over time (it's amazing what we get used to). I notice it more while I'm, descending on the mountain at the end of the day, though.

There is also a proposal (although I don't know the status) to bury I-70 through Vail. While the noise is obviously one concern, many do consider I-70 to be an eyesore.

CW

 

+1,000

A lot of people loose focus when it comes to a "vacation home." You want to go on vacation, right? And what do you want to do on vacation (don't answer that)? Whatever it is that you want to do, the last thing you probably want to do is screw around with your vacation home. So just rent a place and enjoy. If next year you wanna go someplace else, just do it.

The point is not to confuse fun with investing. It may be that investing in a vacation home may be the best investment option for YOU. Then again, maybe not.

Dale

 

Breckenridge has an ice rink.....LOL!

And the snowboard shop afterhours tuners were able to hook a traveling brudda up, with the proper...."supplies"......

I noticed more Anti Fur sentiment there though, or maybe it was just the two college girls with me that was stirring all that up, I guess a Coyote stroller would be more undercover at the other two locations.....

 

They were girls from my Church, not mine, personally.......

"No, I am NOT your chaperone, cuz' I have WHISKEY and CIGARS!!!"

 

While DrTax's point is valid, most owners have a property management company that handle rentals and maintenance. While I certainly don't mind doing the odd project, I realize that many may not be interested in that idea. It's true that most property management companies won't look after it as if it's their own, though. So, if something does go wrong, supervision and possibly some intervention may be necessary to get it corrected to your own satisfaction. Busted pipes, leaky roof or whatever. No one has the same incentive as the actual owner to fix it correctly and prevent any additional damage.

And, it's true that homes have more systems and therefore more complexity than a condo. Condo buildings are basically a turnkey operation. And, while some say that you may not want to vacation at the same destination year after year, one can always go somewhere else. Presumably, you'd also be able to rent your place out easily and for a good number as it would likely be during the high seasons.

CW

 

Forgot to mention that it is imperative to live in Aspen if you want to take advantage of the amenities the town has to offer. If you live "down valley" (anything beyond the traffic circle aka Aspen Highlands, Snowmass Village, McLain Flats, Woody Creek, etc.) you have to fight traffic coming into town each morning and leaving each afternoon. Bummer.

Many families enjoy Snowmass Village, but most of the things we like to do are in Aspen.

Property values are less down valley. There's a reason. It's convenience.

If you have a car (you don't need one in Aspen) make sure you get a place with parking, otherwise you'll spend alot of time looking for a place to park. There were 4 covered spaces for sale this year a block away from us. $199k to $399k.

BTW the average house in Aspen was over $8 million this last year. Lots with teardowns are $2 million.

When it's busy (Christmas to New Year's, 4th of July) the private jets are parked 4 deep at the newly expanded airport. Direct commercial flights to Chicago, LA, San Fran, Dallas, Denver).

Aspen Yacht Club for sailboats at Ruedi Reservoir.

The Aspen Food and Wine Festival in June is a great event and is booked by December.

A friend of ours bought a place in Aspen so that his kids would come visit him. It worked.

Full time residents are 6,000. Peak is 28,000.

 

On your fifth point I think it is a draw for both. Sure there is more celebrities that go to Aspen, but they do get a healthy dose of international people. You do make a great point that you should visit both before you buy since they are different.

Personally I think I-70 is biggest problem with Vail. I-70 can be heard practically everywhere in Vail, but it does make it easier to get Vail though. I think it is funny to hear the proposal by both Aspen and Vail to rid of traffic or highways. It seems they always come up with some elaborate plan to do something, but it never goes though..... I will say that you guys make both great points on everything. No matter which way you go to buy a place in either town, it is going to be expensive and it is going to continue to go up.

 

Rob,

You have a pm.

Brian

 

I'm a skier for 45 years with an average of 30days a season and I ski better than I can walk. Best snow= utah. Best single mountain whistler blackcomb. best colorado resort= vail. best snow and varied terrain on an underrated mountain=copper. most overrated mountain= aspen. Best fishing still in Montana and idaho but colo pretty darn good if you can pry the information out of a coloradan's cold dead hand. IMO if you want investment property buy real investment proeprty. If you think doing a dual use streetcar/racecar is a good idea then you may like a vaction dual use investment property.

 

Agreed!
I am an owner of the red Stag Lodge in Deer Valley, Rob call me and I can let you guys stay in my unit for free and if you like it sell you a deeded fractional (not a time share) for about 300K... You can use it when you want it and rent it other times. Its easier to get to Deer Valley (Park City) from Salt lake than any ski resort from Denver.

 

+1

Look into Park City Bro!!

I currently live in Jeremy Ranch (next to Park City) so get your Arse out here Ill hook ya up!!

Come out during Sundance and join us for some crazy parties!!

Cheers Brotha

 

Now that sounds like a good deal to check out and a steal on a prime mountain that has hardwood floors in the lodge and serves prime rib or duck marsala for lunch! I also lost the biggest brown perhaps 7lbs on a 6x tippet on the provo river directly accross from the entrance of Sundance turnoff. There are some big fish in Utah streams and some giants in Strawberry reservior too you can nail on big streamers. In 40 years I have only been diverted from landing in Saltlake once. Eagle/vail or Aspen I've been shut out maybe 5 times and had to shelp up from denver...blah!

 

If I were going to buy a condo to rent out and use some myself, I would buy in a location where there was more than just ski season to make money.

Check out the summer occupancy rates and the things there are to do besides skiing.