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Clutch

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by John Mc, Feb 23, 2019.

  1. John Mc

    John Mc Rookie

    Feb 23, 2019
    16
    Herts, UK
    Hello.
    I am new to the forum so thought I would say hello before asking advice.
    I own a white Mondial QV and it has been an interesting ownership so far :).
    After charging the battery (loose lead), I decided this weekend to take the car out for a spin with our unusually good weather.
    I started the car and let it warm up. When I went to engage the clutch the peddle had no resistance at all. I have looked on the net to try and find out what the problem is and opinions seem to suggest the seal(s) may have gone on the master/slave cylinder(s) or there is a split hose.

    Apologies if you have answered this query before but I am stuck and any advice would be really appreciated.

    Many thanks.
     
  2. swong46

    swong46 Karting

    Jun 24, 2015
    127
    Bay Area, CA
    My car, the master cylinder seals were on its way out but the slave cylinder hose was cracked beyond belief. The clutch worked until all the fluid oozed out the back.
     
  3. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 22, 2006
    2,164
    Belgium - Europe
    Yes, the typical issues are the seals of the master and the hose of the slave. I have new seals for the master
     
  4. moysiuan

    moysiuan Formula 3
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    Nov 1, 2005
    1,739
    Toronto, Canada
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    Andy
    The slave cylinder is mounted very close to the front header, and the hose and seals in the slave can perish. My guess is the hose has failed. Not a big deal to replace, the slave is also accessible to replace rather easily if required as well. You go in through the drivers wheel well, remove the fibreglass liner and take a look in there to see if there are signs of brake fluid weeping.
     
  5. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jan 21, 2004
    1,480
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    Guido
    You can change the slave seal letting the pump rest in situ. ,Just remove the split pin and push rod, Then you can remove the boot and seeger ring inside that pump. Normaly the cilinder will drop, or you can try to push on the pedal and it will fall out. Clean inside and when a bit rusty you can try to eleminate this with 800 sand paper. Warm a new seal in your hands to soften the rubber. Put it in the right direction on the cilinder after using break fluid on it.
    Put the boot on a large screw driver and then press that large screw driver against the cilinder back in place pressing spring . Hold all in place and put the seeger ring back in place (I know, here you should have 3 hands !!) but it works for me this way. Remove screw driver and put boot, push rod and split pin in place.
    Then bleed the sistem by pumping you pedal but not all the way down...leave some space on the end of pedal function.
    PS : there are pumps that have NO seeger ring inside, so you have to try pressing the cilinder inside with that screw driver and put the push rod in place so the cilinder will not come out again....(here you need 4 hands....:confused:).
    Guido
     
  6. John Mc

    John Mc Rookie

    Feb 23, 2019
    16
    Herts, UK
    Thanks for all of your responses.
    I will have a look today and let you know how I get on :)
     
  7. MaseratiMike

    MaseratiMike Formula Junior

    Mar 15, 2016
    250
    UK
    Full Name:
    Mike
    I had the same problem and I replaced both the slave cylinder (too far gone for repairs), plus the hose was replaced with a new custom stainless braided hose and banjo.

    If you need a replacement Mondial stainless braided hose, PM me as I have a spare brand new one... (UK)

    In the DIY thread I previously posted a step by step replacement guide with photos to help...
     
  8. John Mc

    John Mc Rookie

    Feb 23, 2019
    16
    Herts, UK
    I did a quick search for the DIY thread you mentioned, but cannot find it - sorry.
    Could you give me a nod in the right direction.
    Historically I have been a Ford man, so this is all very new to me!!
    Many thanks again for your assistance.
     
  9. jkstevens2

    jkstevens2 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 25, 2015
    177
    Winter Park, FL
    Full Name:
    JK Stevens
    The clutch and the brake system use the same hydraulic fluid system. Therefore, if your brake light came on look for a low brake fluid condition, you might also experience a free/no pressure clutch. This was the case with me. Once the fluid drains (leaks) out the hydraulic line, air will get in them and the brakes and clutch will fail to work. My system fault was the slave cylinder located in the engine bay, in front of the transaxle. Make sure to drain all the brake fluid and start over again. It relatively an easy repair.
     
  10. John Mc

    John Mc Rookie

    Feb 23, 2019
    16
    Herts, UK
    Many thanks for your comments. Having a go at this tomorrow!
     
  11. moysiuan

    moysiuan Formula 3
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    Nov 1, 2005
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    Toronto, Canada
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    Andy
    AW Italian pn 108865 probably has the best price for the hose, it is expensive for what it is, but widely available.
     
  12. swong46

    swong46 Karting

    Jun 24, 2015
    127
    Bay Area, CA
    Ouch I certainly didn't pay that. It's about $50 to order from the Australian source. They get fatigued mostly from the heat, being right next to the front header. Which is why I sleeved mine with fiberglass silicone insulation and sealed both ends up. I'd be surprised if mine didn't last another 40-50yrs.
     
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  13. moysiuan

    moysiuan Formula 3
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    Nov 1, 2005
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    Andy
    Ah yes, I forgot about the Australian supplier, I did order a spare hose some time ago, that for sure is the best price, and it is the identical hose to that offered by others.
     
  14. John Mc

    John Mc Rookie

    Feb 23, 2019
    16
    Herts, UK
    Went to the garage today, topped up the reservoir and got the better half to pump the clutch peddle making sure that it did not go all the way to the floor.
    I saw bubbles coming up and while in the reservoir as it was pumped and I was told that the peddle seemed to be stiffer (not sure it was). After pumping it for a while still no clutch action i.e. no pressure when pushed.
    Was I not patient enough or doing something wrong?
     
  15. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jan 21, 2004
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    Guido
    Or you have a leak at the slave cilinder (at the engine side)...if not seems the donut seal in the master is shot....
    Guido
     
  16. John Mc

    John Mc Rookie

    Feb 23, 2019
    16
    Herts, UK
    Are there any schematics on here that point to where those bits are?
    There was som wold corrosion on the bottom of the cylinder next to the spare wheel.
    Many thanks.
     
  17. John Mc

    John Mc Rookie

    Feb 23, 2019
    16
    Herts, UK
    That is really appreciated - thank you.
     
  18. moysiuan

    moysiuan Formula 3
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    Nov 1, 2005
    1,739
    Toronto, Canada
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    Andy
    [​IMG]Slave cylinder (the item with the bellows) and its related rubber hose (like a brake hose) can be seen here (I think this would be the Mondial 3.2), accessed through the drivers wheel well.
     
  19. swong46

    swong46 Karting

    Jun 24, 2015
    127
    Bay Area, CA
    I wouldn't and didn't bother replacing the seals because it's sometimes pretty rusty in there, just get a new master cylinder and be done with it for not much more.
     
  20. John Mc

    John Mc Rookie

    Feb 23, 2019
    16
    Herts, UK
    Thank you all for your assistance.
    Will have a look and probably replace for new.
     
  21. John Mc

    John Mc Rookie

    Feb 23, 2019
    16
    Herts, UK
    Do you know of any suppliers in the UK. How much do you think it/they should cost?
     
  22. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jan 21, 2004
    1,480
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    Guido
    #23 theunissenguido, Mar 4, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
    Euh, John
    Eurospares UK....see page above with all prices : master pump (nr 16 on the list....not nr 50) in promotion 125 £, slave 195 £ in promotion...but those one you can find at Lancia (model Thema) for half that price....
    Also UK :
    Superformance.co.uk...99£ for slave, 124 £ master
    Guido
     
  23. John Mc

    John Mc Rookie

    Feb 23, 2019
    16
    Herts, UK
    I had heard that the Lancia Thema had a Ferrari engine . . .
    So these parts at least are inter-changeable?
    John
     
  24. moysiuan

    moysiuan Formula 3
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    Nov 1, 2005
    1,739
    Toronto, Canada
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    Andy
    The Thema engine is different in many respects, I think that is asking for surprises. The Alfa and Lancia parts, where they also fit Ferrari, usually are explicitly cross referenced to inlcude that application, the clutch and slave parts do not cross. In any event, many parts are remanufactured pattern parts, and sometimes even when the correct parts there can be fitment issues. Do not discard your original parts, save them for the future, or rebuild without time constraints to have known good fitment spare. If you want to save money, I would just redo the seals, it is rare for things inside to be corroded which is where you want to replace the whole cylinder unit.
     

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