News

CIS problem

Discussion in '308/328' started by fdekeu, Jun 2, 2009.

  1. fdekeu

    fdekeu Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 19, 2008
    513
    Belzium
    Full Name:
    Frank
    Drove my car (Mondial 3200) out of the garage yesterday after a standstill of about 2 months
    The engine was doing about 2000rpm, normal startup
    While the children were getting in all of a sudden the engine stalled
    Tried to start it but after an initial few tenths of a second of power it stopped again
    So I believe electrics are OK but there is a lack of fuel
    Have not had time to look for the problem, would like some input from the experts here
    I am thinking the WUR is causing the problem or maybe the main CIS plunger is stuck
    Will the cold start fuel valve already stop injecting after a minute??

    Please help
     
  2. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Rookie
    Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Feb 19, 2006
    4,233
    Indiana
    Full Name:
    JIM
    Contact Larry Fletcher (Fletch62) of CIS Flowtech. He is the CIS guru....

    I have carbs, so I can't help but I have seen Larry in action. He's one of the good guys.

    JIM
     
  3. andy2175m4@yahoo.com

    andy2175m4@yahoo.com Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2008
    447
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Andy Rein
    1. If the fuel distributor piston sticks you will get a very rich mixture, but it won't stop flowing.

    2. If the WUR is acting up, you will have rich or lean mixture, but it won't stop flowing.

    3. The cold start injector is on a timer that is nominally 10-12 seconds, after that it shuts off.

    Check for a clogged fuel filter
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    19,070
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #4 Steve Magnusson, Jun 2, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2009
    Not sure that I would agree 100% with this conclusion yet. You (prematurely IMO) have gone off into the more complicated bits (and it may be so), but I'd check the basics first:

    1. Confirm/deny spark during cranking (although if you got an inital "cough" on the unsuccessful restart this is a sign that the ignition is OK), and

    2. Unplug the safety switch on the airflow metering device, and confirm/deny (audibly) that the fuel pump runs with the key in Pos II (run).

    If those are OK, then you can dig into deeper, darker places ;)

    What version Mondial 3.2 -- US, euro, etc.?
     
  5. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,675
    Worldwide
    Full Name:
    Steven
    +1 Larry is THE MAN!
     
  6. st@ven

    st@ven F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 4, 2008
    2,940
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Steven
    2. Unplug the safety switch on the airflow metering device, and confirm/deny (audibly) that the fuel pump runs with the key in Pos II (run).

    would be my first action to. Make sure the pump is running!

    In general: people always look at all the cold-start bits if someting goes wrong with startup.
    In normal condition ( not when is very cold of course,) the complete coldstart set up is not even nessecary to start the engine at all!

    The WUR however does have a function in both normal running condition and cold start but in my experience seldom fails. And even if, it will not prevent starting IMO
    After convincing yourself the pump is not running, check the pumprelais and fuse

    if the pump runs checkout some non fuel related items as mentionned above first.
     
  7. 2dinos

    2dinos Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2007
    2,410
    Contact: Larry Fletcher 225-273-0331

    I found this contact info above on CIS FLOWTECH website. This number doesn't work. Anybody have another contact number for Larry?

    Thanks.
     
  8. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    19,070
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    251-929-3771 (and tell him to fix his website ;))
     
  9. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
    #9 snj5, Jun 2, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    And just to be contrary to everyone's good advice - It's not the fuel injection.

    1. Open front hood
    2. Remove cover of fuse box
    3. Check fuel pump fuse.
    4. Unplug and check the white connector, vertically oriented, most toward the center of the car. The connector for the fuel pump OFTEN burns out here after not being used. If not burned out, snugly re-seat the connector and try to start the car, as the connectors lose connection over time. Don't ask, it's just Italian.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. fdekeu

    fdekeu Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 19, 2008
    513
    Belzium
    Full Name:
    Frank
    Thank you guys
    Made a quick check yesterday: all fuses are OK
    Will look further into it during the weekend

    Some replies:
    Steve
    It is a Euro version
    Andy, St@ven:
    Fuel filter was replaced 2500kms ago
    Temp was about 18°C
    Snj5:
    My electric box is in excellent condition
    Will check for a running pump first
     
  11. Sandahl

    Sandahl Rookie

    Dec 1, 2006
    6
    For a CIS car so-equipped, I think the O2 sensor protection relay (the one with the fuse) is always worth checking in a case like this. Otherwise, testing for the presence of spark and a working fuel pump get my vote too.
     
  12. fdekeu

    fdekeu Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 19, 2008
    513
    Belzium
    Full Name:
    Frank
    I was able to do some further checking during the weekend
    Fuel pump runs when I put 12V to it directly (it was replaced 2 years ago)
    The relais are all OK (i, t, and v)
    Connected the purple-white(ZB) wire to the earth
    This should do the same as closing the switch on the airflow metering device
    But the pump does not run
    So I guess there must be a bad connection in the fuse box
    Maybe just the W-connector that I cleaned before
    Although it looks like new
    If not I will open/clean the my fuse box as St@ven has done before

    Sandhal:
    I don't have an O2 sensor
    Cats were introduced in 1988, I think
     
  13. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
    A popular mod for this not uncommon problem is to wire an outside relay to run the pump.
    There is a thread somewhere showing how to do it.
     
  14. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    19,070
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #14 Steve Magnusson, Jun 8, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2009
    You've got this backwards -- when the ZB wire is at ground (i.e., the airflow metering plate is not deflected and the safety switch is closed), the fuel pump will only run if the key is in Pos III (and the starter is running). When the ZB wire is "open" (not connected to anything -- i.e., the safety switch unplugged or the airflow metering plate deflected), the fuel pump should run if the key is in Pos II (the "on" position). But sounds like you do have something wrong in the connection(s) if the relays and pump are all OK -- did you confirm fuse #10 is OK?
     
  15. fdekeu

    fdekeu Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 19, 2008
    513
    Belzium
    Full Name:
    Frank
    Steve,

    You are correct
    When I push the metering plate down and key is in Pos II the pump starts running
    So I guess the engine will start now
    Must have been a bad connection in the W connector after I cleaned it
    Hate to start the car just to see if it is running
    Will try on Friday when I have to go to visit a friend
    He has got a 328 that sometimes fails to start too
     
  16. fdekeu

    fdekeu Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 19, 2008
    513
    Belzium
    Full Name:
    Frank
    I made a trip of about 85km yesterday
    All worked well
    No problems at all
    Thanks to all for your input

    Frank
     
  17. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
    Yea!
    Congrats!!
     

Share This Page