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Challenge club racing as a reality series...

Discussion in 'Challenge Club Racing Championship' started by Dr_ferrari, Sep 10, 2015.

  1. Dr_ferrari

    Dr_ferrari Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant

    Nov 2, 2003
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    Jim McGee
    Love to hear thoughts on this...

    pros and cons..
     
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  3. Ky1e

    Ky1e Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2011
    1,238
    FL
    I'd watch it.... but I'm not sure how many mainstream people would. Usually the thing that makes these shows successful are over the top characters and I'm not sure people who are in CCR want to act like jacka$$ for the sake of ratings. Ie the characters lay it on thick for the purpose of good TV and if you are wealthy enough to drive in CCR I wouldn't think you'd want to do that.
     
  4. Lcawley

    Lcawley Rookie

    Nov 16, 2011
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    If last years Playboy playmates returned it would definitely improve the ratings.
     
  5. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    6,503
    Would be interesting but I don't know if it would be profitable.

    The only thing remotely similar I know was that thing of the Nissan Academy, they pitted some guys who had won a videogame contest but this time with real cars. Not really good, IMO.
     
  6. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
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    When we first started CCR (the first year we called it FCRA) we flirted with the idea.

    This pilot promo was made by a producer associated with the Discovery Channel.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg0T5Nxf5s0
     
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  8. RotarySwingGolf

    RotarySwingGolf Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2011
    491
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    With HSR's new Ferrari series staring next year it will be more interesting to see if, in reality, CCR is a series next year.
     
  9. HotShoe

    HotShoe F1 Rookie
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    If it's anything like the series they did on karting, hell no!

    IMO all of the reality shows find the biggest jackasses they can to add drama to the show and in the process make the whole organization look like a s&%t show. Apparently the general public likes watching train wrecks and dysfunctional morons.
     
  10. Sicilian1

    Sicilian1 Karting

    Oct 7, 2013
    85
    Bethesda,MD
    The real reality is that the 2016 CCR schedule is almost finalized. The schedule will feature 6 of the best tracks on the country and so much track time that Bob Woodman may need to bring a second trailer of tires.

    CCR at COTA 10/2-4 is great example of the amount of track time CCR will offer their participants.

    Challenge Car Racing - 2015 Circuit of the Americas


    As a racer, the more series that create opportunities to race Ferrari Challenge cars, the better

    Should be a fun 2016 race season!!

    2016 is going to be a great
     
  11. RotarySwingGolf

    RotarySwingGolf Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2011
    491
    Florida and Idaho
    Are you the new CCR PR guy lol?

    You seem to miss the point that splitting up a series that already has a dwindling number of cars is not going to work economically unless each driver wants to pay $10k in track fees for the weekend
     
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  13. ARTNNYC

    ARTNNYC F1 Rookie
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    Agreed. Only 10 cars at last event between four classes is not good
     
  14. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    #11 johnhoughtaling, Sep 19, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015
    We had 10 cars because we had an unexpected sound bar at our scheduled even at Laguna. I had to make the decision whether to rent time at Limerock for only 10 guys that could go on a makeup date. It was an expensive decision for me but I did it anyway Bc I thought the integrity of the series was important regardless of the money. I am jealous I missed it because I heard the barbecue party hosted by Alfred was amazing.

    COTA we have 28 cars registered.

    Big news and big plans for CCR in 2016. Just signed some very exciting contracts. It will be our 8th year hosting races and our 6th championship season. We have a $500,000.00 budget for next year. Exciting new management announcement coming. Big investments into all aspects of the series will make it the best year yet.

    Get ready for some exciting news!!
     
  15. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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  16. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
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    Hmmm. I've been an HSR member for twenty-five years and fully support David Hinton, Jim Pace and George Tuma. They do a nice job and some of the events are happenings, like the Mitty and the Classic 24. Some are much smaller, like this weekend at Road Atlanta.

    HSR is like many groups in the fact that they will make a place for almost any group of cars that wants to (and can, over a short period of time) achieve critical mass, enough to support the cost of the track time.

    They have provided a home for Bill Riddell's Stuttgart Cup (Cayman and Boxster) and the Mission Foods GT3 Cup series. They have tried to make space for a Radical series a few years ago, but that critical mass didn't form, for whatever reason. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. SVRA took on hosting Trans Am for a few of their events. That did and does work for them.

    It's a tough game, running a race series. Sort of like herding cats. I think a lot of "new" series that try and form parallel to well established series (like CCR, for example) are going to have a tough time.

    The schedule is not getting any less crowded and you've got to have people in it for the long haul. If I had a dollar for every specialty series that was going to be added to an existing org's schedule that MADE it, I'd be a poor man... See you all at PBIR in January/February? ;)
     
  17. 36010024

    36010024 Rookie

    Sep 7, 2010
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    Ken Marlin
    Over the past seven years I've watched a number of people try to start race series. Very few survived more than a couple of years. CCR has done more than survive. Over the past seven years it has evolved, changed, and become a fantastic place for true gentlemen Ferrari owner- racers. It is not for everyone. It's not for the Ultra-competitive a-holes who would just as soon run the other guy off the track rather than lose a position in a sprint race. It's not for the guy willing to bring two 458s to the track – knowing that they probably will trash at least one of them and maybe both. And it will always have detractors – people who find fault with small things. But overall, it's a great group of gentlemen Ferrari owner-racers Who remain gentleman while competing hard. Theyvare mostly a great bunch of people. And on top of it all it costs 30% of the Ferrari factory challenge. And that combination is why CCR will survive for another seven years – at least - even as it continues to evolve.
     
  18. Sicilian1

    Sicilian1 Karting

    Oct 7, 2013
    85
    Bethesda,MD

    I am definitely not the new PR guy, just a driver who has had many great experiences at CCR events similar to your first event at Daytona (minus the contact). CCR has a very talented group of gentlemen drivers that I am proud to call my friends. Even though we have had some difficult times this year, we have stuck together and we will ALL be at COTA in 2 weeks.

    My guess is the fees next year will remain the same ($1500/race weekend) with even more track time at each event. I think you estimate of $10,000/weekend is a bit high.


    If someone else is willing to create a series with dedicated track time and races for Ferrari challenge cars ONLY like CCR, I think that is awesome. I look forward to having more opportunities to race. If it is limited track time and mixed classes, I don't think I would be interested. We will all have to wait and see.

    It should be an exciting finish for CCR 2015 at COTA. Your Wisko teammate has quietly moved into the top 3. We may not have an answer till Sunday afternoon. Hope your cheering for him.
     
  19. RotarySwingGolf

    RotarySwingGolf Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2011
    491
    Florida and Idaho
    Why no to racing mixed classes? I've never understand why some people only want to race against other ferraris.
     
  20. Sicilian1

    Sicilian1 Karting

    Oct 7, 2013
    85
    Bethesda,MD
    All racing is fun. I have a BMW e46 that I race in mixed classes. Nothing against it. However, if I had to pick my ideal, give me 35 F430 challenge cars at VIR, Watkins Glen, COTA, etc. That is awesome. Yes, I know no series will ever see car counts like that for Ferraris but that what I think is the most fun.

    As time goes on, challenge cars get wrecked, the older classes get smaller as you saw with your 360 and drivers replace them with newer challenge cars. The 458evo will soon become the largest class in CCR once they are allowed to race, however, I think the 430 class will still keep there numbers for awhile
     
  21. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    #18 johnhoughtaling, Sep 21, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015
    Multi class multi marque racing is common in club racing because promotors need to get as many cars as they can to the track to race to support the high costs of promotion. Some people actually prefer running against all types of Marques and all types of people and there are all type of venues that allow Ferrari challenge cars including SCCA, NASA and NARA and HSR if that's what you like.

    Others like marque specific spec racing (Ferrari Challenge/Lamborghini Trofeo/MX-5cup). This is a different type of deal. I prefer it and I think the money on a spec racing car available for a spec series helps hold its value as a known commodity. For marque specific spec racing Ferraris there are two series in the US that I know of. The factory challenge for the current cars and The CCR FORZA Tofosi Challenge. The factory series has been going on for 25 years and ours in its 6th championship year (8th total) because Ferrari enthusiasts want to race in Ferrari Challenge races, Against Ferrari enthusiasts, in factory Ferrari Race cars. As for why people like to race against other Ferraris, there are answers, which some undetstand and this explains the market which has spoken for 25 years. Ferrari challenge racers are generally Ferrari collectors first and the racing is secondary. It's certainly not for everyone. If a racer finds the Ferrari marque and preservation of the Ferrari Challenge car is secondary to the competition, CCR is not the right fit.

    After 20 years of producing Ferrari events, I have a tendency to look at the macro view of the Ferrari collector world. Over the years car counts go up and down between classes in CCR with an overall increase in participation over the years. I agree the 360 is one of the best dollar for dollar Ferrari challenge racing and I expect these classes will increase Bc of the availability of these cars. Part of CCRs mission is to promote the preservation and racing of older Ferrari challenge cars and so we will continue to spend resources on growing and preserving these collector race cars. There were times when the 360 was the largest class and I expect we will be seeing more as the benefits of the 360 are understood. I also see promise in the 355C class. 355Cs collector car values are starting to increase fast, as collectors appreciate the beauty and the last shifting Ferrari street legal race car. Moving cars as stock as possible also is designed to keep the integrity of what we see as future collector car value unique to the Ferrari market. Each class 355/360/430/458 have advantages and disadvantages. FORZA's new article on the differences is a good one.
     
  22. Entropy

    Entropy Formula 3
    Owner

    Jul 10, 2008
    2,151
    I ran the full CCR season in 2012 and it was phenomenal. I now do other racing, but have attended a couple CCR events each year since. For anyone looking to race a Ferrari, or even just have fun in a race car, the concept behind the series is outstanding.

    CCR is what it is - no more, no less. For many, it works perfectly, and to me, it's a "fun by design" model -i.e. show up if you want to, have fun, no pressure, just behave appropriately.

    CCR has benefited from that attitude - it may also have had some ups-and-downs in the past couple years from that attitude, but seems like there are always new people who want to come and drive.

    If it was a professional/for-profit series, having 10 cars would be a disaster. As a group of folks who want to drive and race their cars, 10 folks at Lime Rock may not be ideal, but it's a hell of a lot of fun.

    As for single vs. multiple marques - having (theoretically) identical spec cars makes things like tech easy, everyone in the paddock can help each other, and any cheating stands out quickly and is crushed by peer pressure vs. stewards. Again, it's the concept.

    Personally, I think the CCR model would benefit by adding a few non-Ferrari classes (eg. the orphaned Aston GT4's, Cup Cars, McLaren "track" cars). Most participants have a passion for the Challenge cars, but CCR's "concept" is likely bigger than just Ferrari. Keep the classes, but increase the grid count by allowing people of similar mindset to come play with their (non-Maranello made) toys.

    However, I'm not racing in CCR any longer, so that opinion and vote should be reserved for the guys who actually show up and race in the series.
     
  23. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    #20 johnhoughtaling, Sep 22, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2015
    Ferrari CCR FORZA Tifosi Challenge will always be Ferrari challenge only. We have for 8 years had full grids and will not be adding other marques. CCR has been in talks with other manufacturers abou running spec factory races for them. But our current Ferrari Challenge will remain just that, as will the factory Ferrari challenge.
     
  24. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    #21 johnhoughtaling, Sep 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  25. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    #22 johnhoughtaling, Sep 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  26. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    #23 johnhoughtaling, Sep 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  27. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    #24 johnhoughtaling, Sep 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  28. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    #25 johnhoughtaling, Sep 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

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