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458 Buying A 458 Italia Was A Mistake (So Far)

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by FFan5, Jul 1, 2020.

  1. FFan5

    FFan5 Formula Junior

    Jul 7, 2018
    276
    Two years ago I purchased a 458 Italia. I love the car, and I’ve gotten great enjoyment out of it. I don’t intend to part with the car as long as we still have gas stations.

    So why was buying my Italia a mistake? The Speciale! I refused to buy an Italia that wasn’t exactly the spec I wanted. As a result, I paid $218k for a low mileage example. Not for the low miles mind you, but because it was the spec I wanted. However, I would take pretty much any spec of Speciale. Two years ago, I could have gotten a Speciale for $330k. It might have been the market low. Not buying the Speciale was a mistake.

    Before we compare the two cars, how much has an Italia cost me over two years? The answer is an astounding $76.5k without including gas/insurance/maintenance/PPF/etc. I paid ~$230k with taxes for the car when the S&P 500 (Ticker: IVV) was at $282. That $230k would now be worth $256.5k at the current IVV price of $312 after cap gain taxes and taxes on the dividends. Since I’ve put over 6k miles on my Italia, and two years have passed, I think the best I could get for it is $180k. That’s $76.5k in just two years, not including operational costs!

    So how would a Speciale have done? A Speciale would have cost ~$350k after tax. Even with the added 6k miles, I think it would still sell for $330k. How much would the cash be worth now? $389.3k after taxes. So the Speciale would have lost $59.3k over these two years.

    What?!? I’d hoped that by leaving an extra $120k in the market, I would do better than buying a Speciale. However, my Italia, so far, has cost $17.2k more to drive around than a Speciale would have. I would assume that insuring a Speciale would be more expensive, among other things. But $17.2k is a decent cushion for two years of operation.

    Could this change over time? Sure. If IVV hits $362 tomorrow, then the Italia will have broken even with the Speciale. If the S&P 500 goes down at all, then the Speciale looks better and better. What about long term? I’m not sure. It depends on how a Speciale and Italia depreciate with 3,000 miles per year are put on them, and how the S&P 500 does. It is likely that in a 20-year time span an Italia would still be a cheaper car to own, but it isn’t an easy call.

    Would I buy a Speciale if I could go back in time? I’m not sure. Certainly not because I don’t want one. Certainly not because it would cost more to own. The trouble is… I’m married, progressive, and don’t think I could convince my wife that the more expensive car is the cheaper one to own. So if I got a $330k car, she would have spent $100k more on her home remodel. Once you factor in throwing an extra $100k into a shredder if you buy a Speciale, the Italia starts looking more attractive once again. :-D
     
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  3. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    3,292
    France
    You got it wrong, the 458 does not depreciate :D
     
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  4. humdizzle

    humdizzle Karting

    Mar 9, 2016
    155
    grass is always greener. you could have bought a McLaren and absolutely ate it on depreciation too.

    458 italias will depreciate. But they are very reliable and the depreciation rate is slow if you buy a 2010-2011. Mine has only depreciated 45k in 4 years. I was already a bit of a slave to the car with how crazy the market is on mileage... couldn't imagine how crazy i'd be with a speciale stressing about every chip, scratch, parking spot, planning out mileage for year, etc.
     
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  5. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
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    Clicking on this post was a mistake (so far)

    :)
     
  6. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ

    Jul 19, 2006
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    Stickbones Swagglesmith
    You lost me at “progressive.”
     
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  8. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
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    +1
     
  9. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran
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    Feb 24, 2007
    6,001
    Silicon Valley
    So spending an additional $120k to get you around $20k less depreciation? Agreed that the Speciale is faster and more special, but it’s also less comfortable, an important factor for my wife, who comes along on drives. I think you’re ahead.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
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  10. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
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    Yeah same here... The Speciale is super nice, but if you factor in things like taking your wife/girlfriend out to dinner or going for a drive up or down the coast, then it's gotta be the 458 Italia all the way. And if you're worried about depreciation then buy a Toyota or Lexus, not a Ferrari (or maybe buy a vintage Ferrari).

    Ray
     
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  11. obbob

    obbob Formula Junior

    Aug 14, 2017
    761
    I think you are looking way to much into this. Car ownership is about driving them until you get bored, while making sure you able to afford the depreciation and expenses. I strongly believe that whipping out the calculator and spreadsheet will only detract from the experience.
     
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  13. 3POINT8

    3POINT8 Formula 3

    Jan 23, 2014
    2,290
    sounds like you overpaid for your car in the first place. and its probably worth closer to $170 then $180
     
  14. FFan5

    FFan5 Formula Junior

    Jul 7, 2018
    276
    That's the math. I could have purchased a cheaper Italia, or maybe found a better investment than the S&P 500. Otherwise, the Speciale would have been $20k cheaper to own.
     
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  15. dgoldenz94

    dgoldenz94 Karting

    Apr 13, 2020
    141
    Full Name:
    David Gold
    You could have bought a Hyundai and had a lot more money too.
     
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  16. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    Jun 12, 2007
    5,875
    Or become Uber eats driver and travel for free with the wife, and get some leftovers. Free meal!
     
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  17. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 Rookie
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    May 23, 2013
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    ANGELO
    There are better things to invest than trying to minimise your loss on a vehicle purchase. BUT you do bring up one valid point. To spec a F8 to the cost of a PISTA is crazy if you are worried about devaluation. The Pista will get you more. The F8 unfortunately will plummet like 488.
     
  18. cole328

    cole328 Formula Junior

    May 9, 2014
    549
    One of the silliest threads ever....buy a car.. drive the car..enjoy the car...


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  19. Coincid

    Coincid Formula 3

    Dec 9, 2014
    2,379
    Canada
    This constant lament and obsession over depreciation results in the diminution of the enjoyment of owning and driving these remarkable cars. Accept the reality that all regular production vehicles lose value. If the financial loss is excessive for high end cars, do not purchase them.

    Frequenting restaurants and taking vacations leave one with nothing left financially at their conclusion. Yet many still partake in these activities because they bring fun, excitement or happiness. Think of your super car with a similar attitude.
     
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  20. JonnySK

    JonnySK Rookie

    Jun 28, 2020
    22
    Malaysia • Korea • Australia • Other
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    Jonny
    After reading that, I'm happy to be rubbish at math. Such computations hurt my brain too much, so I'm never tempted to think along those lines.

    I'm a simple sod. I work hard, earn money, spend money, and enjoy what it brings without a second thought.

    I have no idea when I'll sell my 488 - probably 5 years plus - but when I do, I'll take market rate, and I'll back myself to have earned enough to buy whatever I want in 2025.

    Ignorance is bliss :D
     
  21. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
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    Nov 3, 2003
    3,714
    Gladwyne PA
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    Morrie
    I always have trouble understanding you normal folks, but this one is so far past anything I am totally lost. Why buy something that your always going to be worried what is worth. Take this buy a 997S, take it totally apart, take a year and a half to put it back together with one of a kind parts that cost just about 350K and when you are done you have a one of a kind car that a normal mechanic shakes their head at and says what's that part about 100 times. So 500K and Porsche says it is a kit car now not a 911 and worthless to anyone but me. I call that being a car guy, some of you might agree, OP probably not. No one spends over 50K on a car unless they are trying to make a statement, maybe yours is I lost money. That is about all I get from this, I could have saved you money and time after almost 500 cars that I have lost money on, I could have told you that for free.
     
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  22. KC360 FL

    KC360 FL Formula 3
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    Jun 20, 2017
    1,205
    Melbourne Florida
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    KGC
    Sounds like the old "first world problem"

    Rule #1 Cars are not investments.
    I have a shop full of cars that folks could go out and buy one of their year and marque for a lot less ( and I mean a whole lot less) money than the one we are building for them.
    But buying one like theirs doesn't make it their car. They want their car, their dream, their choices

    Rule #2 See rule #1.

    You obviously have bucks. Try to enjoy it more. Life is short.
     
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  23. Rory breaker

    Rory breaker Karting

    Apr 17, 2017
    229
    You lost me when you started to talk about what you could have done with the money in the market instead.
    What kind of backwards looking regret laden mindset is this? I bought mine, perfect spec, 2 yrs ago, paid on the high side and couldn’t care less.

    The only thing I didn’t know before buying the car that I know now are:
    1) drive it like it’s meant to be driven, it’s amazing in the twisties, full experience
    2) mod it, mandatory exhaust at a minimum
    3) now I can’t sell it unless I find the *exact* spec in a speciale with the exact mods I have already...only 458 example I would sell this car for

    if you bought it for 220 and sold it 2 yrs later for 170, that’s 2k a month to drive a great car. Can’t see the issue here, and if you do, you should prob sell the car and get something that suits you better. Not being facetious, legit recommendation.
     
  24. Cigarzman

    Cigarzman F1 Veteran
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    May 7, 2014
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    Kirk
    #21 Cigarzman, Jul 2, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
    Go enjoy your car man , instead of shoulda , woulda , coulda and didn’t. Life is too short.
    Best ,Kirk.
     
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  25. FFan5

    FFan5 Formula Junior

    Jul 7, 2018
    276
    You've stated the obvious. My point was that I could have bought a more expensive car and had more money too.
     
  26. FFan5

    FFan5 Formula Junior

    Jul 7, 2018
    276
    I only have the money to buy and enjoy a Ferrari because I think along these lines. While it can appear to be a curse to others, it is how I went from washing dishes and working at Kmart through college, to driving a Ferrari. It's how my mind works. If it didn't work this way, I might have spent every dime I made and not had the savings I needed to start my own company and make the money needed for a toy. For those whose minds don't work this way, I can see how you might think it diminishes my joy, but realize that's your own perspective. Thoughtful analysis of how I use my money does not diminish my joy, it just helps me optimize it going forward.
     
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  27. sampelligrino

    sampelligrino Formula Junior

    Apr 16, 2017
    864
    never a guarantee man. Wreck the Speciale, health issues before you would have come out ahead with "more money", new pandemic comes, whatever etc.... who knows what life has in store

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, I'd choose the 458 in the garage that I can own and enjoy over looking back in hindsight about a hypothetical scenario on a depreciating asset where I might have spent more money to try and avoid losing more money

    I'm with others that in my experience once you start bearing down on running costs/costs per mile/depreciation etc it just takes the fun out of it. Personally I keep the investment analysis for my investments, and use the "ignorance is bliss" analysis for my cars
     
  28. wrs

    wrs F1 Veteran
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    Jul 11, 2015
    5,751
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    William
    The stock market could have gone down in those years so your comparison isn't fair but who cares, when you are dead, you won't need your money anyway and someone else will be buying Ferraris with it.
     
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