Bonhams Gstaad auction & results

That's what I was thinking and to my mind it shows why the auction prices of a few 100 point cars are irrelevant to the value of the vast majority of cars, which are more like 90 pointers. While there are definitely 350 people on the earth who would want a 275GTB, there are probably only a few who would be willing to spend an extra $500K to have a perfect one. Most people are just not that into trophies.

 

Mike:

Thanks for taking the trouble to illustrate how auction results are being manipulated to make hypothetical status quo valuations for all examples within a particular variant. The trouble is these scenarios depend on the notion that all examples of any given model are equal! These classic cars are not shares of a stock with equal value (although some make the mistake of treating them that way, for whatever reason) and the material differences between them are sometimes night and day between 2 cars of the exact same same variant. But Im flogging a dead horse as this thread has already served (thankfully) to prove that this is happening on an all-too-regular basis. Perhaps now we can be more fair, accurate and balanced in our reporting.


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Most buyers are clueless as to what is involved in restoring or just repairing one of these cars so it's enjoyable to drive. To restore the 4 cam you are talking about above, will cost at least 300K top to bottom. When you hear 25K for an engine rebuild ask what you get for that. By having the right people restore a car, not only will you have a car done properly cosmeticly, but you will have a car that runs and drives as it should. Having a car that smokes, backfires, stinks like burnt oil and gas, and runs like crap is no fun. What is a 90 point auction car? Many vintage Ferraris at auction I have looked at are roaches that need lots of work. People get blinded by a nice new quick respray done a month earlier. At Goodings I saw missing or mismatched screws on the chrome trim, the Carello headlight ring on a 275gtb was upside down with the drainage hole on top, bad repairs done with the wrong parts, and stupid little details that make you wonder what the quality of the mechanical work is. That yellow 4 cam sold for top dollar because it was restored by one of the best in the business. Proper in every way. A Name to put on the car. Someone paid big bucks, and waited maybe 3 years to get it to that condition.
I bought a roach and learned the expensive way. I wish I knew then what I know now, however in the end it was a great learing experience.

 

Yeah, most sellers' (and auction houses') idea of "fully restored" is laughable. Whenever I am looking at a car, I always look beyond the (usually new) paint, and try to get deep into the hidden recesses of the car (e.g., trunk under the carpet, footwells under the mats, corners of the engine bay) to see how clean or neglected these areas are. On a car that has been recently and superficially tarted up for sale, these areas are always telltale, as it is impossible to take a car that has been left to neglect for years and make it perfect with a few quick passes of a sprayer and a new interior kit. Also, I am always suspicious of a car that stinks (literally). For myself, I would rather have a car that is NOT perfectly restored, but is more generally clean and has always been loved, never left to decay. It takes an amazing amount of love and attention to detail (and cash) to bring them back to that level.

 

I just wish these cars were not so expensive to buy and fix. The numbers are just crazy. Nothing is easy.

 

The simple reason that high quality restorations done by high quality restorers bring high quality values is not that difficult to figure out really. Next to the low miles, untouched, high caliber, great provenance, fully documented, ORIGINAL cars, for which there is virtually only a handful of examples in any make or model, the great restored cars are the next best option. Taking into account the cost of those restorations in terms of TIME, it is very easy to understand why those who CAN, do pay a premium for those cars, especially very knowledgeable collectors. The perfect original car and the perfectly restored car will always command a premium, in any market as compared to the lesser examples. Happy New Year to All ! Regards, Mike

 

Well said. p.s. You do beautiful work.

 

Great post Mike. Agree completely.

Happy New Year to you & yours...

 

A few pictures of my Lusso as it it's getting a new lease on life. The monthly restoration invoices are high and seem never ending, so yes it gets very expensive to buy and fix. The last picture is of the ultra rare 1 of 3 1952 Ferrari 342 America cabriolet that my Lusso is in the company off.

Gene.

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It would be a great post if he had defined what "high quality restorations" are.
But as this is exactly the point of completely opposite interpretations it leaves much to be desired....

 

geno,
why is the lusso having fender flares added? owners personal preference?
thanks,
ed

 

Probably also worth mentioning that #1 cars almost never come up for sale through an auction company, and when one does come up, it tends to skew the results to the high side. I've been going to auctions for many years now, and I've only seen a handful of what I would call true #1 cars. I know there are some appraisers who sprinkle "1-" and "2+" ratings liberally in their publications, but in my view, if it can't be rolled right off the auction block and immediately across the podium at Pebble, for example, then it is not a #1, period. A typical auction car is a #3, perhaps #3+, based on my experiences.

 

hi, can you get me a chassis # for the America? It looks like a Vignale. thanks tongascrew

 

Agreed.

 

I liked his post exactly the way it was: short, sweet and to the point.

Thats why I said that it was (& still is) a great post. To me anyway.

Personally I am thankful he spared me a long thesis on what a "high quality restoration" might be, but if his post was insufficient for your understanding, then hopefully he will be back to elaborate for you.

BTW, Ive had the benefit of seeing his (regaliaconcours) work first-hand, and thats why for me further explanation is unnecessary.

Cheers,
Joe

 

Goes back to the old saying:
Here's my grand father's axe. My father replaced the handle and I replaced the blade. Simple, concise easy to understand.

 

They are not being added, but removed. Years ago some one did an amazing job adding the flairs to fit wider wheels from a 330 and wider rubber. Probably for hill climbing etc.. After a good amount of research I could not find any data to justify keeping them during the restoration. They made the car look very nice, as the flairs made the car look wider and lower due to the lower profile wider tires the car had when I bought it.

Gene.

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Not sure, but it's owned by The Black Hawk Collection. Interior shoot..

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Thanks Joe & Vintage V12 Nut, There really is no further explanation needed to qualify my post. I think most of us here including Stratos have some incling as to what a good restoration is, although I'm quite certain it will be different for everybody. I was merely answering a earlier post asking why one 4cam would be worth 500k more than another at this past August RM sale. Buyers over the decades have spoken quite clearly with their checkbooks about what they believe are the cars worthy of higher value, and without a doubt the cars coveted by collectors the most are "time warp" originals or quality restored examples. Best, Mike

 

0232 AL, ex-Norman Snart. Unfortunately being restored incorrectly and non-original (dashboard, bumpers, two-tone paint, many other details).
Marcel Massini

 

Best New Years Regards!

Mike

Next August do stop by and take a look at what I consider to be a 100 point car.

Best

 

That's a shame. For such a fantastic car, I would hope the owner would want to get everything correct. Marcel when you mention the dash being incorrect, I'm assuming that the engine-turning in the instrument module is part (or all) of the problem. I have never seen anything like that on a Ferrari (although there's certainly a great many cars I've never seen) and frankly it looks nothing short of bizarre.
Cheers and Happy New Years.
Dave

 

The engine turning is seen in the Vignale cars. I have seen turned trim in 219EL, which is an original car.

This is the AL, a few years ago. Isn't this an ex-Forbes car?
http://www.fantasyjunction.com/cars/467-Ferrari-342%20America%20Vignale%20Cabriolet-Lampredi%20V12

 

Lets try this on for size....

I want to buy a Ferrari. I hope the Ferrari market tanks so that the Ferrari I want has a lower price. I have observed lately that prices on Ferrari's are falling.


accuse me of trying to influence the Ferrari market for my own personal gain.

what a joke.... the sad part is... its sooooooo farggin stupid its not even funny.

thank you, drive through.

 

here is a tip...

those buying do their best to drive down the price.

those selling do their best to drive up the price.


congrats, you have "uncovered" one of the basic tenets of capitalism.