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Belt Service

Discussion in '308/328' started by Bobby Butler, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. ClydeM

    ClydeM F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 4, 2003
    8,736
    Wayne, NJ
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    Clyde E. McMurdy
    Folks are just weary.
     
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  2. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie
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    Jan 22, 2003
    3,922
    SW-Germany
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    Martin N.
    Me too. And given the costs of two belts, the money point of view is neglectable. I have the Hill tensioner bearings and only replace them each second belt change. I just check them. If there's no play and if they feel smooth, they stay.
    Belts are affected by age. Tensioners are miles.

    The opposition who claimed "every two or three years" doesn't exist any more. They sold their cars many years ago, because the belt changes got annoying :)

    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
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  3. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    7,743
    New England/FL
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    Disclaimer: This post is for informative use only. It is not a recommendation or suggestion of how to check you timing belts or when to change them. But if you belts look like any of pictures b through e, I suggest you change the belts.

    This is taken form an article I have on belt fatigue. Pictures are taken at equal time intervals. Note that even after the first time interval, (b), the wear on the teeth is apparent. Yet the belt continued for at least 4 additional intervals. Compare this to the picture I posted in post #51. The data in the article suggests that long before the belt cords reach their fatigue life, causing the belts to snap, they stretch resulting in a change in pitch of the teeth cause the teeth not to mesh correctly with the pulleys. Thus wear on one side of the tooth is apparent. Since there has been considerable discussion of belt stretch, I personally tested the belts shown in post #51, as noted in post #61, and neither the old or new belt showed any significant stretch. The absence of any visual tooth wear on the old belt seems to confirm this.
     
  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    26,828
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    The Boxer design is 100% identical to the 308.
     
  5. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    26,828
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall
    Some of us don't like to argue. I also like WC Fields Never Smarten Up a Chump position. Besides I have been very busy fixing wrecked, blown up motors and making a lot doing it so why try and correct the stupid ideas expressed here?
     
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  6. thorn

    thorn Formula 3
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    Aug 7, 2012
    2,353
    Tallahassee, FL
    I think most of the members here have made up their mind already on how they're going to deal with the belt change intervals, so ...you know... Not much point in supporting or opposing at this point.
     
  7. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 4, 2001
    29,405
    Birmingham, AL
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    Tommy
    As I posted earlier, I am a 3 year guy because I was told by people who know much more than I ever will that this was what I am supposed to do. So that is what I have been doing.

    I am a nonexpert so I just follow the expert's instruction on how to maintain these things.

    However, I have been concerned about the issue I mentioned about grab bagging a bad bearing, though.

    I use my car. It is nearing 130,000 miles now and I think that really is the best maintenance, keep the fluids fresh and drive the thing.
     
  8. pizzadude

    pizzadude Formula 3
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    Feb 20, 2001
    1,126
    Indianapolis, IN
    3 years seems really excessive. Especially when most likely the cars aren’t being driven much and no way a belt goes bad in 3 years. I always kind of felt it was the 5 year mark but the more I have heard and read even that seems unnecessary. I made a call to an older Italian mechanic from Canada who worked on my car at one point inquiring about a record for my car. We talked a bit and in his thick Italian accent he said “ and da belts you don’t ah need to do 5 years. 8 years is ah fine” I think I’ll go 5 1/2 or 6 years. My 5 year will fall right at the end of the driving season anyway so I’m thinking 5 1/2 or 6 is where I would be comfortable. Unless I planned to sell it in which case I would have it done because I think a car presents much better with and up to date service .
    End of day if 3 years is what makes a person feel good and they don’t mind spending the extra $$ to each his own.
    It’s an interesting thread for sure.
     
  9. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    7,743
    New England/FL
    Currently 10 yrs, about 5k miles on my 308, 7 yrs, 8k miles on my 355.
     
  10. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    #85 dwhite, Feb 21, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
    Okay, it's an optical delusion on my part. ;-)
     
  11. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Two Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
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    Tommy
    Certainly the three year interval is and always will be a negotiation point during a sale.

    I'm certain that people that wont touch a belt on their car earlier than 7-10 years will instantly be a three year proponent if a 3X8 they are looking to buy hasn't had belt maintenance in 4 years.
     
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  12. thorn

    thorn Formula 3
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    Aug 7, 2012
    2,353
    Tallahassee, FL
    Every belt is perfectly fine until it breaks. ;)
     
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  13. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Rookie
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    Jan 15, 2007
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    Kim
  14. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    26,828
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall
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  15. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    So to complete the thread, what engine oil should I use after a timing belt change and what's the best oil filter. Ooops forgot what trans fluid is best. There we have the trifecta. :)
     
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  16. kiwiokie

    kiwiokie Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2013
    746
    Tulsa, OK
    I found it surprisingly difficult to apply the procedure of tightening the tensioner at its maximum extension as the tensioner fluctuates too quickly to tighten right at the peak. Is there a trick to this?


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
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  17. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    What's someone paying for a major service these days. The first and only one I had done by Ferrari was in 2002 at WWOC; a major with new clutch was $5500 (over half of what a cosworth BDA was going to cost me for my TVR - went with the built 170hp Ford SOHC 2.0 instead for $2,500) I've heard 308 majors can head north of $7,000 and if you add a clutch and it could be up to over $10,000 today. Insanity.
     
  18. pizzadude

    pizzadude Formula 3
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    Feb 20, 2001
    1,126
    Indianapolis, IN
    I think 3500-5000 is a good range at an independent.
    $7000 sounds really high to me. Maybe at a dealer?
     
  19. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Two Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
    29,405
    Birmingham, AL
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    Tommy
    The clutch should outlive you.

    I've never worn one out in my life and I started out with them in 84.
     
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  20. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
    290
    I tried this method but ended up with a too tight belt. I may have done something wrong during rotation of the engine ... not sure.
     
  21. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    I agree Doc. It was replaced at 53K because of slight slipping. Don't know how the clutch was used by prior 2 owners who put 47K on the car. But if you could go back to fchat in 2001 when I joined, you would see posts of a 308 clutch life being 10-20K miles. I never understood how someone could eat a clutch that fast. They must just ride the hell out of it from every stop.
     
  22. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    26,828
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall
    When I rebuilt my engine I put the old clutch back in.
     
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  23. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Two Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
    29,405
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    Tommy
    I remember you telling us that.


    I have every reason to believe mine I was the original when I replaced it after 30+ years and about 120,000.

    It didn't need it after seeing it. I was just to a point where I thought a new disc wasnt a bad idea while it was in the shop since it was so old.

    I should have left it alone.
     
  24. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    5,346
    TX//Mexico/UK
    Full Name:
    Mike 996
    The Ferrari method, as depicted in the owners manual sets the tension and is extremely easy, taking advantage of the design of the tensioner to automatically adjust the tension before locking down the bolt. If you are going to manually set the tension, you have a better chance of getting it wrong. However on the good side if you choose to do that (manual setting) you can remove the spring from the tensioners and save all that excess weight! ;)
     
  25. kiwiokie

    kiwiokie Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2013
    746
    Tulsa, OK
    Understood. I just found that even having someone rotate the crank slowly the tensioner was only at maximum extension for a fraction of a second. I even put a dial gauge on it so I could better see the point of maximum extension but I am not sure it helped at all. Kind of like shooting skeet, if you fire when the skeet is in your sight you will miss it every time. You almost need to anticipate the peak and tighten right before. I was just surprised after measuring tolerances to .001mm that the belt tension process was so unscientific but maybe the tensioner compensates for being a little bit off on the static positioning? Was just interested if others had the same challenge.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     

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