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Belt Service

Discussion in '308/328' started by Bobby Butler, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. Bobby Butler

    Bobby Butler Rookie
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    Jan 1, 2020
    21
    Houma, Louisiana
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    BB14
    Looking for some factual experiences concerning belt service intervals. 5 years 30k miles really?
    Your input is invaluable considering the vast operation differences that may vary between such a wide calendar versus mileage cars that are parked mostly versus the one that may be driven occasionally. Common sense dictates a look see at the exterior belts . I’m mostly interested in your experience’s with the cam belts / bearings and the condition as found versus the mileage and age.

    Comments concerning failures or condition on belts/ mileage are most appreciated.

    thanks in advance, BB
     
  2. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
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    Apr 23, 2002
    13,009
    I wouldn't change the belts. If they are working OK now why screw with them? I just spray mine every now and again with WD40 and call it good.
     
  3. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
    72,229
    Houston, Texas
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    Bubba
    The original CHANGE interval for the early 308 belts was 52K miles.

    Inspection every time a mechanic touched the car (6K miles oil change).
    The catalysts really raised engine compartment temps, and so the current Tech Bulletin was issued.

    Do what you want, but frequent visual inspection is important.
    Not pushing your luck, is important!!!

    Go with the Tech Bulletin for peace of mind, but see also Pulley Fences, Belt walk, tensioner bearings, sodium valves.....welcome.
     
    sherrillt likes this.
  4. Harry-SZ

    Harry-SZ F1 Rookie

    Okay, another belt-thread? :)

    In Europe the interval is every 3 years.
    Maybe that is quite often, but you don't want to risk serious engine-issues.
    I would not stretch it to 5 years myself.

    Belt replacement is not the most difficult (or expensive) jobs in the world.
     
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  5. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
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    Jimmie
    Yes I'm afraid so............
     
  6. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
    301
    I replace belts every three years and tensioners every six years.
     
  7. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Sep 1, 2010
    6,462
    around Modena, Italy
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    Alberto
    Belts and tensioners are heavy duty and very similar to the ones installed on small Iveco light trucks. The usual (on a light truck...) belt change interval here is 8 years or 100000 km (62000 miles).

    Changing them before that interval is a nonsense. Changing belts without changing bearings and tensioners is even worse than leaving everything as is.

    Never heard of a 308 belt failure except for some bad installed: those failures all happened immediately after a belt change (that was badly done, of course)

    My tip:

    1. unless you race the car or do 20-30 k miles per year, change the belts when you want: 8-10 years are enough.
    2. when you change the belt, you have to replace tensioners and bearings and be sure the work is done by anyone that knows very well what he is doing
    3. Water pump and water hoses usually give much more problems than belts, so maybe a good idea is changing belts when you change water pump or water hoses
    4. Don't be worried about 308 belts: they are rock solid, if correctly installed.

    Ciao
     
  8. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    5,416
    TX//Mexico/UK
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    Mike 996
    If you do a search you will find an inexhaustible supply of belt posts and recommendations. Frankly, I echo the "do what you are comfortable with" advice. IOW, read the stuff and make your own decision.

    I admit that I'm one of those folks who have never seen a cam belt fail on any belt-driven engine, including many with over 100k MILES on a belt with a factory-recommended change interval of 60k miles. However, I am not suggesting that you do that, it's just a general comment re belts. On my 328 I am completely comfortable with a 5 year interval and have replaced the belts/tensioners twice since I've owned the car. As noted, the way most of us drive these cars, you are going hit your time limit (whatever you choose that to be) long before you hit the mileage limit.

    If you read the threads you will also find a variety of opinions on how to actually remove/install the parts as far as locking things in place, setting the engine at TDC, etc. Much 'interesting' reading lies in your future... ;)
     
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  9. lopena

    lopena Formula Junior
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    Nov 3, 2003
    391
    Since 1993 I’ve had the belts & tensioners changed every 6 years on my low-mileage 328. I always inspect the old parts and they’ve been universally pristine. Oil & filter get changed once a year. Antifreeze and brake fluid flushed every three years or so. New tires every ten years. I never had any problems.

    Alan
    N.J.
     
  10. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    Aug 7, 2012
    2,543
    Tallahassee, FL
    I've seen at least 2-3 since Thanksgiving.
     
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  11. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula Junior

    Apr 17, 2014
    888
    California SF area
    Full Name:
    Paul
    According to Dayco the vast majority of timing belt failures occurr between 90,000 and 100,000 miles on belts that are 7 to 10 years old. So I’d say, at the very least, don’t go there.

    Timing belt training
     
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  12. sherrillt

    sherrillt Formula Junior
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    Jan 1, 2009
    841
    Northern Virginia
    #12 sherrillt, Feb 18, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020
    this sums it up. Intervals are assuming a regular/daily daily driver with varying speeds and temps. Changing a belt on a 2k mile car after 3-4 years that was only used cruising around town is a waste of money IMO.
     
  13. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    9,833
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    Oh well, it was so peaceful around here for a while.
     
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  14. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Two Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
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    Seriously?

    THREE?

    can you give us what happened in a nutshell?
     
  15. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Two Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
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    Honestly I'm a 3 year guy. I take it to Ron over in Atlanta and get him to do it. Just belts and tensioner. None of that while you are in there stuff unless it is serious.

    About $1000 a trip.

    But one part has always bothered me and its changing out good parts for new parts so frequently. Remember that thread about the brand new cam belt pulley that was machined incorrectly from the manufacturer?

    I dont want to take off a good part for an unknown when the good one is proven. The more frequently I do it, the more likely it seems that I could get a bad one and I dont think things are made as well as they used to be.

    Maybe I'm just paranoid.
     
  16. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2002
    1,893
    Kingsport, TN
    Full Name:
    Lawrence A. Coppari
    I change my timing belts every 5-7 years myself and have owned my '87 328 since 1988. I'm on my third set of tensioners, third water pump, and second set of cam seals. In the 5-7 year range, the front cam cover usually begins leaking so that's when the maintenance gets done.
     
    moysiuan likes this.
  17. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    5,416
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    Mike 996
    "I dont want to take off a good part for an unknown when the good one is proven. The more frequently I do it, the more likely it seems that I could get a bad one and I dont think things are made as well as they used to be.

    Maybe I'm just paranoid."

    No you are not, they really ARE all out to get us! And I totally agree that the idea of replacing good parts is unnecessary and just asking for further difficulties; I have always disliked the concept of replacing something because you are in there. Other than normal servicing/maintenance items, replace something that is broken; otherwise, leave it the F^$* alone! ;)
     
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  18. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    9,833
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    Good idea, except that cam belts, tensioner bearings, water pump on certain models are not wear and tear items. They are preventive maintenance items and you don't wait for them to break to replace them. They have drastic consequences when broken.

    The service interval of belts is set so that 100% of belts don't break if you follow it. So don't be surprised when you remove the belts and see that they are still good. They are supposed to be still good when you replace them.
     
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  19. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    26,949
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    Cannot possibly be true. All the experts here disagree.
     
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  20. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Legitimate concern and why those of us who give a **** are very selective about what brands we buy and who we buy from. There is more junk out there than ever before and some of it is coming from sources like Ferrari. I would suggest not brushing your teeth for fear of tainted toothpaste is no justification for bad teeth.
     
  21. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    26,949
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall
    I positively hate fixing cars for free and because of what I have seen and experienced in this business our 328 and TR get belts every 5 years.
     
  22. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    5,416
    TX//Mexico/UK
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    Mike 996
    Yelcab, I absolutely agree that cam belts/bearings are routine maintenance items (though we may have personal opinions re the interval). It's no different than checking valve clearance, air pressure in tires, changing the fluids, etc., etc. - anything listed as periodic maintenance in the service procedures for any vehicle.

    Normally, I would not include replacing water pumps as routine maintenance. OTOH, if a certain water pump is known to be problematic, then sure, I would replace it almost immediately with a better one or with better internal parts if rebuildable. IOW, if the '89 328 WP was known to be a problem, I would have replaced it shortly after buying my 328 in '08. But from that point on, I'd only replace/repair it if it was exhibiting symptoms that it needed such. I would not replace it just because I was doing cam belts or other service that just happened to give accessibility to the water pump - or to any other similar component.
     
  23. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    26,949
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    Brian Crall

    I agree completely. The waterpumps are grossly over sold and a huge reason is the internet and Ferrarichat originated hype.
     
  24. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Two Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
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    Tommy
    What supplier do you use for you belts and tensioners?

    Who you use will be who I insist on using
     
  25. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    26,949
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall
    Dayco belts with a recent date code and either Hill or Capristo bearings. The Ferrari bearings now being supplied are trash from some 3rd world country. They are going full low bidder and not just for the older cars either. Seen some parts for current production I wouldn't use in a lawn mower.
     

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