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Belt service without removing engine?

Discussion in '348/355' started by ///criss, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. ///criss

    ///criss Rookie

    Jan 1, 2017
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    San Diego
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    Cristopher
    Hi everyone,
    I'd like to think I'm mechanically inclined, but when I went to a car dealer they said they did the 30k mile service without removing the engine. Is this even possible? They said they removed the gas tank to do belts.... I call BS, but who am I?
    If I'm misinformed please help me learn here. Has this been done before?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. ///criss

    ///criss Rookie

    Jan 1, 2017
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    Cristopher
    Sorry this is in regarding an F355.
     
  3. steved033

    steved033 F1 Rookie
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    Apr 12, 2017
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    It's been known to happen. Is it easier? I don't think so.

    sjd
     
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  4. INRange

    INRange F1 Rookie
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    Was this a Ferrari dealer that gave you this information or an independent?
     
  5. cactussed

    cactussed Karting

    Mar 12, 2008
    130
    Its a topic that's been done to death on here. In a nutshell (again):
    - yes, its possible (by removing fuel tank, loosening mounts and tilting engine to release the crank pulley.
    - pros : quicker, easier (and thus cheaper), you don't disturb a lot of things
    - cons : there's a lot you can't see / check if anything else needs doing, space is very tight.

    The above is based on my experience of having done both methods myself.
    Someone will be along at some point to bang on about doing things the 'proper' way or scrimping on servicing etc etc. but the above largely covers it.
     
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  6. PaulK

    PaulK F1 Rookie
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    Apr 24, 2004
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    Not to mention you can damage the vent tubing removing the tank and those parts are NOLA.

    My take is that it was designed to have the engine out for a reason. You should probably do it the way it was designed.
     
    2NA likes this.
  7. PhilB

    PhilB Formula 3
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    Feb 17, 2004
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    I find these engine in/out debates interesting.

    Before my 355 I had a 308. When I was doing my pros/cons evaluation in between Ferrari's, one of the pluses of the 355 in my opinion was the belt service is in fact an engine-out service. The 308 is an engine-in service, and there's no way anyone can convince me the engine-in is better.

    Even cost wise the difference isn't that compelling.
     
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  8. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    "A" car dealer? I am assuming it wasn't a Ferrari dealer.

    Really bad Idea and if it was me I know one car I wouldn't be buying.
     
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  9. WATSON

    WATSON F1 World Champ
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    Sep 9, 2010
    11,419
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    It's been discussed here a lot.
    Why would anyone do that?
    The car is designed to have the engine drop out and do the service.
    90% of the time it needs a water pump, PS pump, fix leaks, etc and that needs access to accomplish.

    Do what you like, it clearly is your car and money.
    But the smart move is to read the ROM and follow the Ferrari instructions.
    It's not THAT hard to do properly anyway.
     
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  10. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
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    I would bet my 348 it is not a Ferrari dealer that told you this.
     
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  11. ///criss

    ///criss Rookie

    Jan 1, 2017
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    Cristopher
    Independent ... I wont give the name but I'm having a hard time accepting it.
     
  12. ///criss

    ///criss Rookie

    Jan 1, 2017
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    Cristopher


    Sorry, but I did do a search. Perhaps I wrote the wrong parameters.
     
  13. ///criss

    ///criss Rookie

    Jan 1, 2017
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    Cristopher
    I agree. I'm questioning what I was told. For what its worth Ferrari dealers dont guarantee good cars either. Especially this age...
     
  14. ///criss

    ///criss Rookie

    Jan 1, 2017
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    Cristopher
    I was looking at a car to purchase so these are the sales guys words. I agree it should likely need to be removed.
    I'm still learning so I apologize for asking an age old question.
     
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  15. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Well no they won't but there is a long space between someone selling a Ferrari who brags about a serious shortcut taken in an important service, most probably out of ignorance and someone in the Ferrari business, franchised dealer or not.
     
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  16. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Nothing wrong with the question but why I always tell people, especially new to the brand to stick with people who specialize in these cars with known good reputations.
     
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  17. ///criss

    ///criss Rookie

    Jan 1, 2017
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    Cristopher

    I'm in San Diego. North County specifically. Who would you recommend to chat with?
     
  18. 355OXO

    355OXO Karting

    Apr 16, 2006
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    Simon
    It is possible, but if you wanted to do other work it might be difficult. I think you have to remove engine to do certain jobs near the cam belts but you can definitely change the cam belts with the tank out. I think the purists will think this is not the best way to do it but depending on the job why not?
     
  19. cactussed

    cactussed Karting

    Mar 12, 2008
    130
    Not meant to be a dig at you at all.
    Apologies if it came across as such...
     
  20. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

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    This is my opinion.

    The vehicle was designed to have the engine come out for this service. Yes, it takes time. However, doing it the other way also takes time but is not the same. My conclusion is that since they both take time, why not do it the way it was engineered to be done.
     
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  21. steved033

    steved033 F1 Rookie
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    Exactly. Once you do it, it's not that big of a deal.

    sjd
     
  22. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

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    I will be the first to agree - we did mine, following Ernie's thread, and I have zero experience (now I do).
     
  23. cactussed

    cactussed Karting

    Mar 12, 2008
    130
    Having just taken the engine out of mine, I can confirm the following:
    - it took me 2 Fridays (so maybe 10 hours total) to get the engine out. Its not complicated, just some of it is fiddly.
    - There's so much more room with it out for working, cleaning and just general access. Also means I can replace some other bits and bobs whilst I'm there.
    - It makes a mess coming out (various fluid spills).
     
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  24. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie
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    Mar 17, 2006
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    Speaking of engine servicing not as the manufacturer designed, this sort of logic caused a fatal airline crash back in the day--American Airlines flight 191. Seems the mechanics didn't like the time required to service the engines properly, so they devised an "easier" way by removing the engine from the pylon as a whole. Anyway, see "Investigation". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191

    So...engine out. It's the way it was designed.
     
  25. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Good example and message. I didn't want to criticise that which I had not experienced so I once started to do the service in the way so many said it could be done. In my experience it compromised the car and the job in so many ways (not unlike Flt 191) I stopped and did it the correct way. I have nothing against finding easier, streamlined ways to do something as long as it results in a quality job. In the car belt changes do not.
     

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