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Auction vs Private Sale

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by 330 4HL, Apr 6, 2015.

  1. 330 4HL

    330 4HL Formula Junior
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    May 12, 2005
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    Rick Bradner
    I've decided that once my 330 is done I will be placing it on the market. What I had intended to be a 1 year mild refresh has become a three year odyssey that has been equal parts satisfying and frustrating. In the interim, both my personal priorities and the value of Bianca have shifted pretty substantially and I think it's the proper time to pass her to her next caretaker for the next leg of her journey.

    My question here is: Auction vs Private Sale, what's the better way to market a (relatively) high value classic car and why?
    Given this area is dedicated to Vintage Ferraris I'm sure there's a pretty wide range of expertise and experiences with both.
     
  2. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    I am no expert but my take is that selling via auction at a market leader such as RM or Gooding or even the right Bonhams sale gets you marketing and marketplace access that is very hard to get otherwise. This can lead to a price that will be ahead of the curve and so long as you don't get to greedy with the reserve you will come out smiling. Talacrest and DK Engineering would be half way there as well but I don't know what sort of commission they would want. Selling privately means that you can decide how much you want to ask and what if any conditions you are willing to request or agree to BUT how do you get the market to notice your particular 330 if you do that?

    Others will have much more direct knowledge than I.
     
  3. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    Aug 1, 2002
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    Of course, selling through a large auction house like Gooding or RM will also cost you 10%, but the added exposure and their connections/services could be well worth it.

    I sold my GTE through Gooding (Pebble Beach, '08) and was pleased with the way the sale was handled on their end. The buyer would not likely have even known about my car otherwise, and Gooding really went to work to close the deal post-block after the car failed to meet my reserve, which I admit might have been a bit optimistic at the time. I know I would have fared better had the car not been poorly prepped and presented, but this was not their fault.
     
  4. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    888
    You are totally right, when a car is being sold at auction, preparation is key in addition to the ability to bring interesting and complete part of history. For people in the room everything is visual, including barn find. So if your car stands apart, people will notice. I have attended a lot of auctions and it is rare a fantastic looking car get unnoticed.
    I have bought and sold cars at auctions, to and from dealers, via brokers and purely privately ie with no intermediaries.
    Each of those are different experiences. Fundamentally one has to be honest with himself and what he owns and figure out what he want to achieve. Anything else is a bonus.
    In this particular case, the car is nicely prepared and a lot of work has been done, but unless I missed something in the thread, the car was not fully dismantled to the last bit and pieces. And the engine was not fully rebuilt. So compared to a full nut and bolt restoration this car while very nice is not in the same category and specialists won't be fooled. But the costs involved were not the same either.
    So proper seller expectations in addition to proper preparations , specially if any, of minor obvious incorrect details, from cheap but incorrect tires ( not the case on this car but very often on auctioned cars) se key to success. I would also say staying next to the car and providing explanations the day of the sale unless the car is very well known is an obvious plus.
     
  5. 330 4HL

    330 4HL Formula Junior
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    Thanks to all for the feedback thus far.
    I think your critique of my car is quite accurate. When I began the process, it was intended to be for my personal use, and as such it was a comprehensive refresh rather than a full on restoration. When/if I consign it, it will be with a very reasonable reserve, as I'm less concerned with getting "the last dollar" than I am with getting fair value.

    I asked for the comparison vs private sale as much to hear of any problems with add on charges, difficulty in getting paid, or even tax implications that I might not have thought of. This sort of transaction is well beyond my normal area of experience, so the accumulated knowledge on these boards is much appreciated.
     
  6. shaughnessy

    shaughnessy Formula 3
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    Apr 1, 2004
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    At the major auction house, all cars under $250,000 are all no reserve. FYI

    There is a waiting line of people attempting to bring entry level cars, to a sale.
    Even at no reserve
     
  7. cam man

    cam man Karting

    Nov 6, 2004
    67
    Good question I sold my 288 GTO through a private sale. At the same time a platinum 288GTO sold at auction (within a couple weeks). My car was a good car but not as good as the auction 288. I still ended up with more money in pocket than the auction 288. Those 10% fees cuts deep. However, a private sale is a lot of work so you need to consider that also. Based on the invisible hand of the free market system it is probably a wash as economic forces would push the two processes to equilibrium.
     
  8. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    Jun 3, 2011
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    It can't hurt to try a private sale for a while at what ever price you would like then if you have no action on it try one of the auctions . I have to agree the 10% fee plus the shipping and hassle sure do add up on the other hand the car will get sold .. Just want to pick the right auction house....best of luck....
     
  9. 275GTBSaran

    275GTBSaran Formula Junior

    Mar 5, 2012
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    Le Monde Edmond
    To start with I have bought only 33% of my cars at auction. The other 66% were done by private deals with brokers and owners. Having said that I think that public auctions are the better avenue to sell your car, with a few exceptions. The advantages of public auctions are many and are known: global awareness, marketing power and a brand behind you. I think that unless you are selling a very very high end car (I am talking $10m or more) public auctions have many advantages.

    There are a few reasons not to sell at public but rather private. First - discretion and privacy. If I don't want the entire world to know I am selling a car - it might be better doing a private deal. Secondly I could also imagine that if your doing a complicated swap (involving buying a more expensive car and selling your car as part of the trade and cash) a private deal is more efficient.

    These are my thought. Instinctively and without doing too much thinking- I think I might be assured a higher price for my car if I sell it at auction as I tap the 'full market demand'. But ofcourse this comes at a cost (a certain percentage fee).

    E
     
  10. ersatzS2

    ersatzS2 Formula Junior
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    Jan 24, 2009
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    Given the frothiness of the collector car market especially Ferrari, and the massive swirl of dealers and intermediaries sniffing for blood in the water, this might be a time when you do just fine selling privately. A quick and discrete sale via one of those much-maligned 'speculators' even at a 20% discount to the fully burdened auction result (and don't forget you've got a lot of direct and indirect costs selling at auction too, both in time and brain damage) might be well worth it.
     
  11. drew365

    drew365 Karting

    Jun 22, 2004
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    Andy Ritter
    Any thoughts on this years auctions at Monterrey, since Ferrari will be the featured marque? Will that translate into a good selling opportunity?
    Do the auction houses charge both the seller and buyer premiums?
    How many games are still played at the auctions? I remember years ago, phantom bidders were prevalent. I haven't been to an auction in many years but I intend to attend Monterrey this year.
     
  12. 330 4HL

    330 4HL Formula Junior
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    Rick Bradner
    Has anyone here used the F-chat classifieds to sell a pre-365 Ferrari successfully?
     
  13. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    Jun 3, 2011
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    yes to all of the above the bidders may or may not be real .. If you are buying it is very easy to bid against the wall ,on the other hand any car showing a no sale(due to not meeting reserve) the high bid likely means nothing ..you have to know how to read the auction.. In my opinion and experience ..
     
  14. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    Appropriate enough chandelier bidding is illegal in all states but I have heard it is prevalent, especially at B-J. I believe the big 3, RM, Gooding and Bonhams have far more to gain than lose when it comes to integrity and I would be surprised to see if they play many games. Although they will no doubt call bids through to reserve as that is common practice.

    As for this years Monterey auctions the big announcements so far are RM with their 275/340S prototype and Bonhams with a Fiat 8V Supersonic. Much more to come.
     
  15. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
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    Today, if you are looking for a mid-grade classic and are even marginally knowledgeable about the mark all you need to know is how to Google. You find the right candidate(s) and you are half way to ownership. So, the cachet of auctions is more than "exposure", it is something else. I don't know what, but it is not exposure. Unless, by exposure you mean gaining exposure by attaching yourself to a much publicized car.

    john
     
  16. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
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    What advertizing did you find was the most successful?
    Thank You
     

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